I AM keita haha lol i actually am!

you want to buy him?

Pep is far from racist... Did you not remember Dani Alves is Black? Thiago is black. Rafinha is Black. Abidal is black. He got rid of Eto because Messi was his replacement and Messi proved to be better. He got rid of Yaya because Busquets is much younger and had much more talent then ya ya. Maybe not Physically but Busquets is the best CDM in the world in my opinion. Look where Pep has lwd Barcelona with all his changes? hes a brilliant man

mistakenly clicked like when I just wanted to tell you that you must be out of your mind to think that Busquets is better than Yaya, not to mention that De Jong is also far better defensively than Busquets

*facepalm*

....idiots like Foballa who throw the term "racism" around don't seem to understand it's meaning and clearly know nothing of football with these comments. Eto'o was always a problem in the locker room, only his great talent kept him there as long as he was...Guardiola had to make an example of him especially if he wanted to assert himself as the new boss while he also groomed Messi into the central role. He did the same with Zlatan....so I suppose he's "racist" against all Swedes of Croat-Bosnian descent too, right?

Yaya was always appreciated but Busquets' emergence of talent and understanding of the system and his role meant Yaya's place wasn't a given anymore. His departure was more due to the meddling of his agent who used this situation as an excuse to strike up a new deal with a transfer.

In regards to "inheriting" the team from Rijkaard, you could argue that to an extent but in actuality Pep had to dismantle the core of that team which no longer produced. He got rid of Eto'o, Ronaldinho, Deco, Zambrotta, etc. He then centered to team around the trio of Messi, Xavi, and Iniesta. Of which the latter two were no more than squad players under Rijkaard.

I've been avoiding these forums because of these idiotic claims and false-moralities on racism from fools that don't know anything of racism and bigotry besides what has been indoctrinated to them like a goddamn corporate advertisement, meanwhile there are real people in the world suffering from true forms of discrimination all over no matter the color...its not just about black or white, grow the f**k up. Racism isn't just some card for you to pull out in an argument, by doing so you disrespect the very people who suffer that you pretend to speak for.

lol, had to laugh at the contention that Bitchquets is the best CDM in the world. And with the kind of season YAYA is having, I don't know how you can think that YAYA isn't better. Sure Bitchquets is a good player; you have to be to be on Barcelona, but come on now...

BTW, its a fact that the entire Barcelona system was transplanted there from Holland, specifically from Ajax, starting with Cruyff, and continuing on with van Gaal and Rijkaard.

Just saying for those who view Pep as some sort of visionary. Pep isn't a visionary, he's a faithful disciple, faithfully continuing on what he's been trained to do.

you tend to lose credibility when you call him "Bitchquets"...at least come up with something a bit more clever next time.

Here's how I see it Yaya is a much more complete player; bigger, stronger, faster, better forward dribbling and shooting. With that said Busquets is far better with control, short combination passing, positioning, and anticipation...which is of more value with the Barca team.

In the more traditional sense Busquets probably is the better CDM while Yaya may still be a better player in general.

and btw, no one is saying Pep invented anything no need to be so defensive about Ajax. Pep has simply solidified it and brought unmatched success to Barca with it to keep it relevant on the world stage. He also added much needed discipline and hunger lost after Rijkaard left.

"Bitchquets" wasn't about being clever; it was about be descriptively accurate. I have no respect for that diving cheat.

Put Yaya in Busquets position on this team and he would more than excel, even more so that B. Much of what makes B look good, to the extent that he, is that he is on this Barcelona team, with Xavi, Iniesta, Cesc, and Messi to make plays with.

I get more than defensive re: Ajax when speaking with Barcelona fans because you'd be surprised how little Barcelona fans know of their own history, of how they developed the Tiki-Taka style in the first place. If ever I make a criticism of anything to do with Barcelona (the best team in the world, clearly) they respond by saying Ajax suck, or something to that effect. Well, yeah, that is pure ignorance, not to mention extremely ironic, so thus the history lesson.

Anyways, enough splitting hair. Barca is great, but its a shame B plays on it.

Yaya is clearly a better player, but he wouldn't have been happy playing the Busquets position at Barca for much longer. Yaya has way more to offer offensively as evidenced by his time at Man City. Plus, Barca made a lot of money from his transfer allowing them to address other needs on the team.

BUSQUETS BETTER THAN YAYA?! HA WHAT A JOKE! He's behind not only Yaya but also Song, Parker, Alonso and Van Bommel.

...whereas Mourinho is famous for critisizing refs who make bad calls in his team's favor just as harshly as refs who make bad calls against his team. Ahem.....

No seriously, I agree Spanish refs are just plain not good enough and there's certainly no conspiracy, at the most it's a tendency on referees' part right now to not give us penalties because that is becoming statistically significant this season. Everything else is lacking professionalism and quality. Only it has to be said that you always critisize the refs when you're on the receiving end, never when you get lucky. It's part of the game. Up to a point, I think you just have to accept it although sometimes it goes a little far.

Its amazing how much people do not know the rules. Pique's challenge was explicitly deserving of a red because he was last man back and took the guy down. What his intentions were, malicious or not, is completely irrelevent. NOT arguable!

he wasn't quite the last guy back; I think you could make the case for a yellow as well as for the red.

It feels like keita is sort of wasted at barca since there are so many midfielders ahead of him. great game from the man from mali!

@Dtouch Yes, the rule is as clear as you state it. YET YOU MISSED MY POINT COMPLETELY.
1) The question is if it is such a case were the rule applies. The point being that It leaves much for interpretation and context. You and I have seen so many handballs in the box in multiple games yet some of them are punished and others are overlooked, precisly because the ref takes in to consideration the nature of the action and the context. We are not putting in question the rule, but the justification of applying the rule. The reason.
If all that mattered was applying the rule in a cold calculated way then, for instance in some aggresive games, you would end up with just 11v8 on the field due to the strict judgement for player ejections. That is why the ref needs to considerate context.

2)Also if your argument holds , any bloke who could read the rule book could do the reffing. But no, the matches are officiated by experts who understand the rules and its variations and who due to their experience, knowledge (or in some cases interests) make the calls-appropriate or not. It takes playing the game, being immersed in it, to understand it and officiate it.


Back to our point in question, (Like @PortYoder mentioned), Adriano was a couple of feet in front/side of them both. So Pique was, arguably, not the last man. Clumsy challenge, yes. Red Card, too harsh in my opinion.

Are you serious? Watch it again. The Gijon player in 17.34 yards from the goalline. The other Barca player(s) are at best(!) in line with Pique, but yards away from the play and were never going to close that gap in the subsequent split second. There was no way the other Barca players were going to defend the Gijon player. You make it sound that, besides Pique, the Gijon had two more Barca players to go through. Nope. Not at all. You want to talk about interpretation. Well this was the situation: The Gijon was about the have a one-on-one with Valdes, was just about to have a strike at the ball, when Pique takes him down from behind. Straight red if there ever was one. The other Barca players weren't close enough to factor into the play. It was the Gijon player vs Valdes, with Pique the only hope of making a miraculous defensive player to intervene. All he was able to do was take the guy out from behind and in the box. Just because he is a professional and made it look somewhat like it wasn't "malicious" and "just an accident" only shows your bias. Players, good players, do that, they aren't stupid and know EXACTLY what they're doing: "woops, I accidently just tripped and happened to take the guy from behind out who was just about to have a clear scoring chance. My bad, I'll take a yellow for tripping over my shoe-laces." FFS, don't be so credulous.

Are you saying that if Pique did have the intent to bring de las Cuevas down then it is deserving of the red? First of all learn to stick to your story. You flipped/Flopped from your first reply to your second. In the first you say that Intent is irrelevant to determining the call and then on the second post you say this:

"Just because he is a professional and made it look somewhat like it wasn't "malicious" and "just an accident" only shows your bias. Players, good players, do that, they aren't stupid and know EXACTLY what they're doing: "woops, I accidently just tripped and happened to take the guy from behind out who was just about to have a clear scoring chance"

So are you implicitly saying that Pique did have the intention to bring him down and that the Referee interpreted it as Piques intention when he collided with De las Cuevas? You just conceded the point of my first reply. That intention factors in and it is not irrelevant. By stating that players do it all the time then implies that reffs must know about it. Thus suspecting that Pique had such intention.
In addition you bring up another point. Don't you think De las Cuevas made the most of that contact? After all, good players do it all the time ( CR7, Suarez, Evra, Busquets Alves, Pepe)

Accuse me of misreading the play because of my own bias? go ahead! I'm on the record for criticizing my own team's faults and errors. I do it because I care more about the game than a team! I just happened to be in a spell with the way Barcelona moves the ball and scores goals. So no I am not misreading this to my teams own advantage.

With that being said lets go back to the play it self

After closer review, I still have to disagree.

1)The foward had no control over the ball after pass was made. It was technically a loose ball! After his second touch it bounces of Piques crotch prompting Pique to go for the ball and consequently tangling with De las Cuevas. Which I think absolves him from having any INTENT to bring down the player and does not give for the Ref SUFFICIENT grounds to bust out the red.

2) Contact was made in the arc. Not the box. That is just a fact. Look again. If you boast such knowledge of the rules you might recall what the relevance of the d only applies during PK and not play. If it was in the box like you said, then why didn't the official punished with a PK? Tsk.Tsk.
If it was in the box, by all means, award it with a PK in Sporting's favor be it by a clumsy challenge or not.

3) Adriano was clearly in a position were he could of challenged with a slide to block the shot making him still the last man. If you don't believe he has the pace to have caught up, just check his run earlier in the game. The ball back tracks for inches and as De las Cuevas slows down to try to control the ball consequently colliding with Pique as he is running full speed and giving Adriano a two meter leverage to be able to still take a steps in the middle of the box and defend.


Buddy, I could go on for days.( i.e. on the issue of going for loose balls and referees not having a clear view of the play) I am not getting convinced that the ref's red call is anything but harsh and undeserving.

Believe me, I was just as mad when Van Persie got ejected last season during Arsenals vs Barcelona CL encounter. It was a bad call by the ref.

This is why you need replay to aid the refs calls. I don't care if it stops the flow of the game. I care about fairness. Flow always comes naturally as the game gains momentum. Fairness has to be strictly safeguarded.

@antifutbol

I got to disagree: pique was clearly the last man, the contact with pique made it so that the striker lost the ball... wasnt for that it wouldve been only to Valdez to try the save....

Said this i think the red card wasnt there a yellow for sure, but too weak of a challenge to get a red... very well played by pique

as u said if it was on the box it wouldve been a penalty for sure though

Wow, long post. I'll try to keep this one to the point.

First, my mistake with the position of the FREE KICK. Watched alot of soccer that day and thoughtlessly stated it was a PK when clearly it was just outside the box. Moving on.

Second, you erroneously make inferences and assumptions about my argument, and then proceed to construct entire arguments based on those incorrect assumptions. I do not believe intent is a relevant factor in judging a foul, otherwise all "late" tackles in the box or elsewhere would be considered ok since, afterall, the defender did it by accident. That being said, players still try to make their fouls appear to be accidental in the hope that it will result in a more favourable outcome from the ref. That this sometimes does and sometimes does work is only the fault of the ref, and not some prescriptive argument for the validity of considering a player's intent when judging the severity of a foul. Players also dive in the hopes of influencing a ref's judgment, and just because it is often effective is only a criticism of the ref. A foul is a foul and ultimately we can't get into the mind of the players to judge their true intentions. Pique tries to make it seem like an accident, and then proceeds to argue with the ref based on that. Whether he intended to foul the Gijon player or not, or whether he tried to mask his intentional foul by trying to make it seem like an accident (which is how I interpreted his actions) doesn't matter in terms of whether he does or does not deserve a red. That's my position from the get-go. I was merely, in my previous post, ridiculing those who bought Pique's dramatics and then proceeded to state that since it was "accidental" that therefore a red was not warranted. That is rubbish and only self-serving for those who are Barca fans. What really and only matters is the brute facts and result of Pique's actions relative to the play in question, so lets move on to that:

In response to your points:

1)To say it was just a loose ball is ridiculous. Gijon move the ball from their own half, the player passes to the forward, who heels it forward, past Pique, who then fouls the forward from behind. Again you say it touches Pique's crotch and that therefore you know his intentions in the subsequent sequence. How do you know what in his mind? We can only go by what we see, which is Pique bring the forward down...from behind! Again, this mind-reading of Pique's intentions is irrelevant in genereal and especially in relation to whether a red is warranted or not.

2) I addressed the foul's position at the top of this post. My mistake, mental lapse. Obviously it was a free kick on the edge of the box.

3)This point is probably the crux of the matter. You contend Adriano would have ample time to get in a position to defend the Gijon forward, which only proves that at the time the foul occurred, he was not in a position to defend the goal. First, I completely disagree that he would have been able to get in that position in the first place. He was quite a significant ways away, and not goal side. Second, you can't judge the severity of the foul based on what you think might (and hope) Adriano is capable of doing. At the point of the foul Adriano was out of the play, and there is very little reason to think he was going to make it back in the following split second. The important point is that he was not, at the point of the foul, goal side, so by definition Pique was the last man back. You want to talk hypothetical? It is the more likely hypothetical that Adriano would have tried to get back, made a slide to try and block the shot, but that Gijon player would have gotten his shot off in ample time before then. This is where you super-human faith in Barca is evidence of your bias. Pique was the last man back, he fouled the Gijon forward, from behind even, straight red.

You seem upset over this play, which is fine, but if you want to be a true, fair, neutral football fan you wouldn't be over analyzing this play and blaming the ref; you would instead realize this play was the fault of the Barca midfield's lack of defensive sharpness and Pique's clumsiness/poor judgment.

Nice post.... a bit long :D I agree with you in everything but the fact that it is a straight red.... the challenge wasnt strong at all, the player couldve tried to stay on his feet with the chance of loosing the ball from adriano.

It was clearly a yellow card and a free kick just outside the area..... but i dont think it deserved a red card....

it really is up to the referee id say most of them wouldve just given a yellow.

@Dtouch I see your point about the irrelevance of intent now and you are correct and yeah after reviewing the play adriano would of never saved that shot.

There is one thing i have to spar back with you.
Yes arguing in favor of one's own team is suspicious and very often (especially in this medium) determines how arguments are constructed. Yet because it very often it does, it does not mean it is always will be the case. Just because I support a team it doesn't entail that I will judge in favor of it. To want to dismiss my argument on that basis diminishes the thrust of any sincere inquiry. Simply because you refuse to give me the benefit of the doubt on weather i am sincerely being neutral or unequivocally zealous. Furthermore, to not be charitable to that respect, just shows your lack of intellectual commitment.
I agree my support Barsa entails the possibility of bias but it does not entail the NECESSITY of being biased. But after all, It is a bullet that I have to bite. *Chomp*
In that respect, I could follow your same line of logic with your relation with Barcelona. While my support of barcelona is transparent, this forum does not know how you stand in relation to barcelona. For all we know, you may be a barsa-hater. Wouldn't you argumen'ts be self-serving to that purpose as well? I could assume that as well. The problem is that irrespective if you are a barsa hater or not, if we really want to to have a sincere discussion we need to give the arguments the benefit of the doubt.
Even if I did have a reason to suspect you are an anti-barsa, it does not grant me sufficient grounds to treat your argument anything else but sincere and neutral. But again, to not follow that line of argument would be intellectually defunct.

I was fun sparring with you. You have a clever vote from me for showing my mistakes.

That's true but there's a more "subtle" quality to harassing the ref. Quite apart from an opportunity to vent your anger it's also a way to put him under pressure so that next time he might make a more favorable call. Refs are only human and if players gang up on them and flip sh#t because of a call it WILL leave doubts in their minds. Refs don't get a replay. The fact that the audience tends to go with the players on this is one big reason for home advantage.

I hope keita leaves... and comes to us