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Let me expand on a post I made below...

My main problem with Casemiro is that I don't want him to do well. Not because I don't like him but because when he does well thats usually a bad symptom for Madrid.

If you need a player to steal 10-15 balls during a game its because you didn't have much of the ball and played like sh*t. Like we are now.

Casemiro's overvalued importance comes from an imperfect understanding of were control in a game comes from. Control doesn't come from the ability to recover the ball it comes from the ability to no lose it.

Kroos is perfectly fine defensively IF (big if) we go out with a clear plan of holding onto the ball and playing with initiative. With everyone on the same wavelength like we did when he first got here with Ancelotti. You surround Kroos with like minded mids and this team flies.

Think to those first few months of ANcelotti's 2nd year, before Modric's injury. This team was beautiful and dominant. Those one touch triangulations we made in midfield with Kroos, Modric, Isco, Ronaldo, James, Benzema brought tears to my eyes. That is now impossible with Casemiro.

Now, if we just accept the fact we're going to play like sh*t, with little ball movement, letting the other team boss the game while we lay back and wait to counter (like we're doing now), with the team split in two (7 defending and 3 attacking) then yes Casemiro is way better for that.

Once the game is taken out of the realm of technique and passing ability and taken into the realm of physicality and tackling then Casemiro excels and thats a problem.

Its no coincidence that Casemiro's best games coincide with Madrid's worst. Think Dortmund a few years ago. We played abismal, were on the border of being knocked out and Casemiro comes in, runs like crazy and looks like a superhero.

Fact is if we play at our talent level which is very high then we don't need Casemiro.
+1
You can get away with it against smaller teams but when your facing top teams, what then? Your going to count on Kroos to protect the back-line? Pretty football won't win you every game, sometimes you have to play ugly to win. Although I don't understand what your complaining about, Casemiro can pass, you make him sound like he can't pass for s**t. He can pass from distance as well but his main objective is to defend the back line and regain possession to hand it over to MFs like Isco, Kroos, Modric etc because passing to the forwards and creating chances isn't his job, its the rest of the MFs.

Every player has a job, the DMs job isn't pretty and their are only so few DMs that can play the DM role and a deep lying play-maker role. Now if RM were doing badly and Casemiro was doing well, you can complain. Although when Casemiro came in, everything fell together and you guys made a late title run last season and got really close. Not to mention he was vital in your UCl title wining season. Sure his not Xabi but I think his been an unsung hero that deserves loads of credit.
So here's my two cents on Casemiro...

For starter,I'm not going to focus on Casemiro and his style of play. Let's talk about Modric and Kroos,pre and after Casemiro enter the starting lineup. Let's go back to Carlos second season,when we lost Alonso. Modric was plagued by injuries that year,so he gets a pass. Kroos was played as our DM,an Alonso imitation...and he failed miserably...he's defense is terrible yet he was forced to play it constantly. Not only that,but he suffered in attack because of this. Always too deep,never near attacker to make a real difference in attack...

Fast forward,and Rafa is here. Pretty much Kroos plays the same position as under Carlo,but this time the results are even worst,our midfield is getting passed by like nothing,and Kroos is still to deep to do anything offensively. Modric is still good,he knows how to play defense,but he's forced to cover for Kroos and Isco/James way to much. Again,same as Toni,he's offensive work is limited. Basically,Modric was a box to box midfielder,not really want you would want him to be.

And then comes Zidane and Casemiro with him. Results? Kroos is free to go forward,shoot,assist,and not worry about covering the defense so much, he is finally looking like the player from Bayern. Modric has been better than ever,he is our catalyst in midfield.

Take away Casemiro and Kroos and Modric will end up wasting their energy doing something they are not good at(Kroos especially). Casemiro is everything I would want from an true defensive midfielder:

-Good reading
-Strong
-Tall
-Great work rate
-Short passes and distribution to creative midfielders

The only possible upgrade would be Xabi Alonso in his prime,because he had the vision and the passing abilities of Kroos(maybe even better). I'm not saying Casemiro is perfect,he still has to polish some of his strengths,but let me ask you this: witch player on the market would you get to replace Casemiro?
+2
Great point. Kroos can play DM but not a world class DM. We clearly saw the inconsistency and not his natural comfort position.

It would be interesting to find out who Slim wanted for our DM spot to play with Kroos/Modric since he brought up an interesting discussion.

Let see who are the top DMs out there:

William Carvalho, Busquets, Mascherano, Matic, Javi Martinez, Gundogan, Kante, Verrati, Xabi Alonso and maybe Lahm

Out of these, who can replace Casemiro? Or maybe, Slim really wanted to place Kroos at DM position then have another world class CM like Pogba? That's great on paper too but our defense will surely suffer if we have Marcelo and Carvajal on the wing backs.
I'm sorry Pejvl, but you're revising history here like crazy.

Kroos played DM from day one and pretty much KILLED IT from the get-go. Absolutely killed it. I remember he made his debut against Sevilla in the SuperCup with 3 days training (Alonso was suspended from running on the pitch in the CL final) and it looked like he had been playing there for years.

Kroos being so good was the reason Madrid was OK with selling Alonso in the last days of transfer market.

Do people not remember how much we talked about how good Kroos was playing and how much of a steal getting him for 30m was?

That season with a midfield of Modric-Kroos-James/Isco Madrid played some of the best football I'd ever seen Madrid play. Think of the 3-1 wins against Barca in the Bernabeu or the 3-0 against Liverpool.

Of course, all the went to hell when Modric got injured in mid-November in a friendly with Croatia. At that point, Ancelotti failed to replace him in the lineup and the rest of the season was struggle.

But before that it was the best Madrid I had seen and we didn't need no Casemiro.
I'm going to say this now that we're winning so later on nobody can say I only talk sh*t when we loose.

I know everyone loves Casemiro but I don't. We're never going to play good, dynamic, expansive football with him there.

His just too limited with the ball at his feet and as Real Madrid we can and should aspire to someone better there.

I'm not saying his overrated but I think his type of midfielder is.

"Tell me who your DM is and I'll tell what kind of team you are."

And right now RM is a clear reflection of Casemiro. More brawn then skills. Since his been the starter I have never loved this team and how its played.

The fact Zidane sees him as being so important in the lineup scares the sh*t out of me because between him and Kroos, for me, its not even close.

Yeah, he steals alot of balls but thats only because with him on the pitch we have so little fluid ball movement, thus loosing alot of balls, that we NEED him to steal alot of balls to compensate.

Like his the solution to the problem that he helps create.

It was hilarious how as the game went on and Casemiro was completely lost and inept with Celta's high pressure, how Kroos just started naturally drifting to the middle telling Casemiro to move. Like "let me show how its done."

Yet another Real Madrid game were with each passing minute I'm getting more and more pissed off. We're playing so sh*t.
+1
I have to disagree. Like, big time.

Casemiro provides cover for our defense, that's a fact. His interceptions aren't because he loses the ball, you can look up his passing numbers for yourself.

Your argument is so flawed, more brawn than skills? We can't play an entire team of tricky flashy players, remember the galacticos when we got rid of Makelele? That's Casmeiro for us right now.

Casemiro suits our play perfectly, he can defend and also execute counter attacks. We didn't play particularly well yesterday because we were still missing key players offensively. Ever since Casmeiro has become a regular starter we've been winning, if you want to sacrifice winning for another CAM in his position just so we beat Celta 5-0 but get our ass kicked by Barca, that's your choice.

Btw, Kroos is not a DM. He plays much better with added freedom, like the second half he had yesterday once James came on the field.
+4
WOW..
Slim, no offense man.. but i haven't read such wrong posting in a long time. its like a medical misdiagnosis..

if anything, we need a 2nd Casemiro right now as back up to this one.

- he is the only reason our defense has been less embarrassing compared to their usual display
- Kroos and casemiro are completely tow different type of players.. so they don't compare at all..
- i can bet you that many clubs will pay record transfer fee for casemiro if he is put up for sell, reason becos, there really not many DM's on his level right right now.

explain your dynamic football because i am really confused right now.
- since Casemiro became a starter, modric and kroos have become more involved in the game and are no more only limited to the DM positions.. infact it is the clear reason of our recent success in game play under Zidane.
i can tell you the only reason our football yesterday was lacking Real madrid quality is because of Ronaldo's finishing..
On a normal day we could have put up exactly thesame boring game display but the score line would be 4-0 or there about. Or even worse, we could have lost

so please Casemiro is not a problem... he is a huge solution.
+3
I think the ideal "DM" that Slim want is the Xabi Alonso type.

I agree with this statement especially against Celta:

"It was hilarious how as the game went on and Casemiro was completely lost and inept with Celta's high pressure, how Kroos just started naturally drifting to the middle telling Casemiro to move. Like "let me show how its done."
- this is how it is suppose to be. Just let each other do what they do best.

I like the Kroos-Casemiro-Modric trio right now since they complement together. We want Casemiro to hustle and pressure defensively while having Kroos/Modric dictate the midfield.

Remember when Kroos and Alonso played together on the field? It was one of those rare times when Alonso was about to leave for Bayern. It was awkward having them both at the same since they both tried to accomplish a similar role. Think about Xabi+Khedira vs Casemiro+Kroos. Which one works for us better? I think it is debatable but we have to trust Zidane right now and his tactics
+2
i agree with you Slim ... i thought its only me who has such feedback about him but glad to know that you too have the same opinion. i really think he is a class B player and its just a shame for real madrid to have such a poor quality player who just know how to run and chase a ball like a dog and once the ball reaches his feet, cant make a proper decision how to deal with it ... you need a player like xavi alonso type who helps the team defensively and have a creative touch over the ball and make some killing through passes, and also long range shots. seriously casimero is rubbish...no skills...no brain...just like a machine running here and there... time will come that you all of you will realize that this player is just a s**t ...
+1
Some of you don't understand that Xabi Alonso is one of a kind player. There aren't any players that play like Alonso right now. As a matter of fact,there's just a few good defensive midfielder in the game right now,not to mention defensive midfielders that are playmaking geniuses and have a pinpoint passing like Kroos. The only one who fills that category is Xabi Alonso.

I'll give my full opinion on Casemiro a little bit later,but for now I'll just leave this stats from the first 2 matches in La Liga:

Tackles won:16 (100% success rate)
67% if duels won,80 aerial duels won
Passes per 90 minutes: 57
Pass accuracy: 89%

+1
@Slim and Mar123

Here's casemiros game vs Celta: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b45DMR_uFb8
He does about everything right, he almost never loses the ball and intercepts balls all the time. He just does his job perfectly; intercepting the ball and not losing it. killing through passing is a job for Kroos and Modric.
+1
"Chases the ball like a dog" lmao that's what every player is doing, @Mar123

Casemiro wins the ball back and has good distribution. He protects the mistake prone Ramos every game. I think you'd have to be stupid to think Casemiro is not vital to this team or that he's a second class player.
+1
@Zizou

Exactly my thought
I really don't understand what more they want from the lad.

True, he can try to be a little tactical in creativity but its really not his job one bit and as long as he is doing exactly the defending in the midfield and blocking perfectly, i am fine
@hikmat, bosqites also plays in sams position but see the difference when it comes to vision, creativity and skills.. Damn that stupid casimero fits to be just a rogby player not in a world class team like madrid .. You talk about celta game and how his preformance was excellent , but the performance of the whole team as one unit was s**t and most of madrid fans admit it.. Its not all about intercepting the ball and defending ..its all about how to deal with the ball and make a good use of it not just being like a machine get the ball and blindly pass it to anyone close ... This idiot casimero has no vision and no skills and madrid will suffer for long term with a player like his type... the defender should not only know how to intercep chase balls, he should also be smart and get involved in play making and counter attack.. They should also have dribbling skills sp they can create much spaces... Look at omgiti .. He is a defender but he has damn skills as a foreard and cool control and touch... Stop praising thay idiot and make him like a hero .
Lol whose idea was it to sell a player like Kedira and use Casemiro.
@Mar123 - please stop calling Casemiro an 'idiot'. Your reasoning will be received far better if you do so. He may or may not be the best player out there but calling him an 'idiot' is uncalled for.
+1
@Mar123
clearly, you are high.. and who told you Casemiro has 0%passing accuracy.
yes he gets the ball and kicks it away. think before you type
+1
My only ? is what did MAKALELE do when he played DM for Madrid? Can't remember him being a passer of killer through balls, or having telescopic vision or even looking graceful on the ball when winning it or slowing down opp counters. FYI to all the football wannabe coaches you're NOT and right now Casemiro is doing a job that this team needs at the moment. Can't/ Don't blame Casemiro for the attacking aspect of the team looking suspect. Blaming Him is like blaming any or our back four for our front 5 in the BBC/Morata,James,Asensio,Vasquez,Isco,Kovacic not scoring many goals. Casemiro helps to protect our goal when the very same quality players fail to score and don't position themselves properly when a play breaks down and he's needed to stop a potential goal scoring threat.

If Casemiro is expected to make long through ball passes or have the vision of a "Guti" then wtf is Modric/Kroos/ Isco or James still on this team??
I've been keen on Casemiro's growth since he started playing for the first team.

Casemiro did more with less minutes than Illara or Sahin who had plenty of chances to prove themselves. Lookup pre-Zidane Casemiro highlights on youtube. You will notice, Casemiro has the qualities to put on aggressive through balls and long passes.

Now, the Zidane Casemiro is more of a hound dog that chases the ball relentlessly more than others instead of a "creative DM". Zidane has Kroos and Modric, why would he need Casemiro to be creative as well? Instead, he uses Casemiro as a buffer for Marcelo & Carvajal when they aggressively move forward.

It's all about balance - from defense to attack, right now Zidane does a great job on that.
+1
What ^^^ he said!!!
what did you guys think about how we played against Celta? To be honest I was disappointed at the ugly football. We could have easily lost this.

I guess what I'm saying is that I don't think this kind of football will be enough against the bigger clubs of Europe, or Barcelona. Even in the league, I can see Real drop points against Spanish clubs in the long run. That is our problem, we are not consistent enough.
We miss Ronaldo and Benzema big time. Besides that we should buy a back-up for Miro.
Atletico drop points again...
La Liga two horse race this season??
Not when Las palmas destroying opponents at home.three horses race then..
phew!! bullet dodged !!
+1
We are missing Ronaldo in attack big time. Only now can we understand just how much his presence alone clears up the space for others. Not to mention his goals and assists. We could use that guy Benzema too.

Asensio is great and he was good again,but I think Lucas should always start when Bale or Ronaldo are not in the team. He deserves it.
+2
Ronaldo mentioned he wants to play (at Madrid) until the age of 41 during the award ceremony!

Football wins if he manages to do it. He could potentially shatter every record in La Liga in the next 3-4 years imo.
What's Kiko doing off his line there?
+1
Starting XI:

Casilla,
Carvajal,Varane,Ramos,Marcelo,
Modric,Casemiro,Kroos,
Bale,Morata,Asensio

Asensio makes it into the starting line up once again. I really think we will lose James before August ends. Modric is back witch is great.

Hala Madrid!
Is Asensio a winger? What happens when Ronaldo and Benz come back? It will be sad to see him get benched
Asensio is primarily a CAM, and I was very skeptical when Zidane put him on the wing for Sevilla and Sociedad matches. The thing is,he plays a position between a winger and CAM,it's very strange but he works well there.

He'll probably be benched when Ronaldo and Benzema return,but I'm sure he'll rotate a lot in the midfield trio. Btw,wit the number of injuries we get in recent season,I'm sure he'll get time to play :(:)
+1


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