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Here is the video link of the podcast I posted earlier. Shorter version, just about our game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgY7EErOPTw
looking at Max's past achievements, considering he's out of Coppa & one foot our of UCL in last-16 stage, if he ended this season with "only" Scudetto, that's his "worst" achievement since becoming Juve manager.

Having said that, like i previously wrote below, its about time Juve going for a new method and a breathe of fresh air for the squad. Including the manager and a couple of reinforcement esp the midfield & defender. Our attack is one of the best on paper (if the coach knew how to use them though)
"If you want to go and win the Champions League, you can't play like that, without a brain, without personality and without any desire to play. It seemed to me that Atleti wanted to win and Juve to play around."

Ouch. Guess who just said this.

He has point that also calls out the players. As much as we are putting most of the blame on Allegri, the players deserve a fair share of it too.
Aside from Sczcesny and Chiellini the rest were poor. Ronaldo was not too bad but he made up for it by his stupid childish behaviour after the game. Go look it up.
The thing about blaming players for tactics isn't accurate. For not being able to shoot near the goal or deliver an accurate cross after doing that for their entire life...sure.

But, tactically it all depends what Allegri has them doing all week. We don't know. I maintain my opinion that they don't do attacking drills. We have been playing this wait-and-see football ever since Allegri came here.
Back then it was different though as we had a different team. To be honest that too, was just him taking over Conte's plan.

This is why he became reliant on individual actions and expected the team to defend as a whole.

Conte looked at the squad and had MVP, but not enough attacking talent so the 3-5-2 was invented. He made it work by pressuring the teams at midfield and had Pirlo dictate, with wingers constantly overlapping the defense. Also had practiced movements like the in-line step-over that strikers did constantly.

All Allegri did was try to keep that going. He only played 4-3-3 if both wingers came back to defend. That's why Morata had a hard time in the beginning. Mandzukic excelled in that role, but that's all him.
Once Pirlo left, Claudio was forced to take his spot and now Pjanic. A lot of players who had attacking prowess started passing backwards more and more. Asamoah, Cuadrado, Sandro to name a few. Costa was a breath of fresh air, but with the 4-3-3 things just get muddy between him and the strikers with useless short passes before sending it back again.


Once Dybala stops finding the inside of the post or there isn't a brazilian to back heel just at right time, the whole system breaks because these players no longer know how to break down a defense.

Can you count how many times you see a player make a run and the pass isn't made? This isn't the time where you had Pirlo, Marchisio and Bonucci all sending passes forward.
Or count how many times Mandzukic or a new player flicks the ball on (aka let's play some football) and get left hanging because the others are just not looking for those plays.


The fact remains that we are only winning everything in Italy because the squad quality is a level above everyone else. We can win against City, Barca and Real because on that night the players are fired up/individually are on fire and make things happen, BUT never because we have some great system in place.


ps: I love when Allegri says things like "we were too defensive it 2nd half" or "stepped too far back and let them attack" ...well guess what, you are the one who controls the team. He isn't able to convey to the team to move a certain way for 45 minutes? Or do players simply ignore him?
I don't know how you got that I'm blaming players for tactics in all of this. They are not blameless no matter which way you want to spin it.

Every time you reply it makes me wanna defend Allegri and I really don't. I'm not disagreeing with you on his misgivings, It's been apparent to me for over a year that we need to make a change if we are to take our football in to the right direction.

What I disagree on is that it can't be when we win, it's on the players, they showed grinta and used their individual excellence and when we lose it's on the manager.

When Bonucci falls on the ground because he is out of position and Griezman is 1 on 1 or when he falls on the ground like a moron holding his face instead of stopping a goal, embarrassing himself(which was pointed out by Capello and others in the media). Ronaldo showing 5 fingers like a child. De Sciglio seems to be slower than everyone. Or Pjanic and Bentancur who I love both did nothing or even Dybala.

Honestly Dybala worries me. He is my favourite Juventino easily. And the whole game I'm thinking it's all on Allegri and it is!! Don't get me wrong! IT IS! He has been out of position this whole f*****g season! but then on the other side of it, Bernardeschi comes on and he does more in 10 minutes than Paolo did in 80. I know he can do so much more but he didn't.

This also needs to be sorted out cause as things stand, Dybala is gone in the summer unless Allegri goes and whoever comes in can really get him to put his head down and focus again.
well one of the points I've been making that I didn't mention here is that Allegri doesn't use players in their best position.

We'll see what happens in the summer.

The question is that if he fails in the Coppa and CL, wouldn't it be better to give the new manager couple of extra months to form what he wants next season?
Hypothetically if we get Zidane and he switches to a faster attacking style and it works, that may even make some players stay that would otherwise go.
Do you mean to announce earlier that the club and coach have decided to part ways? yes I believe so.
The club has time to do this the right way and yes this way the next coach whether it's Zidane or someone else will have time to make a more calculated decision and the club will have more time to negotiate for his targets.

And even more crucially it will allow players like Dybala to calm down since they know change is coming.
http://www.espn.com/espnradio/play/_/id/24654287

I don't know if you guys listen to this podcast or not but their views specially Mina's on our gameplay and mentality is pretty much how I've been feeling this whole year. And Gab is spot on on Bonucci.

check them out.
Mina gets Italian football. I mean I had problems ever since Allegri was hired, but a lot of people just don't see it.
You say that but all three agree that even though I think improving our team seems beyond him, Allegri is a superior manager to Conte.

Mina is a big fan of him actually. I'm sure you know.
not to discredit Max whatsoever for his past achievements, but i think right now the quote from The Dark Knight are spot on

"You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain."

i think its about time Agnelli & Co try to do a different approach for UCL. Max's method already tried & tested, and its all the same ol' same ol' every season

regardless of who they appoint as Juve manager next, that person probably gonna win the Scudetto, or alteast ahve 70% chances of winning it, but at this point of time fans didn't really care about the prospect of Juve winning another Scudetto (yet again), but we're craving for that UCL trophy really..really bad
So... Zidane?
I don't know if you guys have been following the situation but it's been up in the air since Ronaldo was signed that Agnelli has a certain vision for taking Juve forward.

Remember when Zidane was spotted at Turin? everyone thought there was a director's role being lined up for him but I think with this whole image that Agnelli is going for Zidane was lined up a long time ago.

Basically it was that if we win UCL, Allegri has achieved his mission and he will ride off to the sunset(Real or United) and Zidane comes in and if we crash out(like we will do now) then there would be a valid reason that Juventus part ways with Max and brings in the former legend and UCL winner in Zidane.

This is at least how I felt since the Logo change and big money on Ronaldo and all the talk started.

And I'm surprised that it's just being mentioned now.

But don't expect to hear any mentions from the management, it will Allegri in 100% till it's not.
Funny reading your comments now :P
+1
I've always maintained that our final 1/3 game was s**t, but now it looks as though the whole thing is rusting.
It was all insipid- Allegri allowed them to invite pressure on, and there was too much playacting and annoying simulation that any good thing that we did was nullified by all the poor play. This is one of the reasons Costa is such an impactful player for us- just running at people and forcing defenders back.

WE WERE AWFUL. No two ways about it.
No surprise.

And gotta give credit to Szczesny.
+9
yup, that finger tips saves from Griezmann
Please give a pair of boots to ADP, Trezegol & Nedved who are in Wanda Metropolitano watching the game, I think the trio will play better....also at this point Atletico please knock us out from UCL and save us from further pain and embarrassment....
Juve don't need for Atletico to knock them out of UCL. With the way they have been playing alongside Max's dinosaur tactical, they might as well knock themselves out of UCL
At this point, I don't even feel angry anymore.
+2
tbh this Juve under Max Allegri didn't really looked convincing in UCL even with the acquisition of Cristiano

lets see which Juve gonna show up in 2 weeks time in Turin
We had one good half against United. It's been poor since then. They have turned up when it mattered before maybe that's why I waited so long to say something.

This is just beyond him.


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Serie A Table

Form
PTS
GD
GA
GF
L
D
W
Pl
Pos
66
37
15
52
0
3
21
24
1
53
24
18
42
3
5
16
24
2
46
17
17
34
6
4
14
24
3
45
16
22
38
4
9
12
25
4
41
15
31
46
5
8
11
24
5
38
6
27
33
8
5
11
24
6
38
8
22
30
5
11
9
25
7
38
15
36
51
9
5
11
25
8
35
11
26
37
5
11
8
24
9
33
8
32
40
9
6
9
24
10
30
-5
39
34
8
9
7
24
11
29
-8
33
25
11
5
8
24
12
28
-9
41
32
10
7
7
24
13
24
-14
35
21
10
9
5
24
14
22
-12
31
19
12
7
5
24
15
22
-15
36
21
12
7
5
24
16
21
-18
48
30
14
6
5
25
17
18
-18
37
19
12
9
3
24
18
16
-29
46
17
14
7
3
24
19
9
-29
48
19
14
9
1
24
20
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UEFA Champions League Table

Form
PTS
GD
GA
GF
L
D
W
Pl
Pos
12
5
4
9
2
0
4
6
1
10
3
4
7
2
1
3
6
2
8
0
6
6
2
2
2
6
3
4
-8
12
4
4
1
1
6
4

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