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Page 1 of 8943
Hats off to Leicester. They played well. that being said Utd should really have had that game in the bag at 3-1. But these things happen in football and I'd rather it happen now than later in the season when the team starts to actually resemble a team. This is a new squad, new philosophy, a new age!

In hindsight things can only get better! ;)
"Things can only get better"
I said that about ten times last season and Moyes always managed to prove me wrong LOL
+1
Of course the big difference is we don't have Moyes anymore! (Thank whatever god you believe in!)
I have offered my sacrifices to Odin, we shall be saved!
Whats wrong with all these united xplayer n xstaff who keep bashing van gal n his men?now meulensten said that lvg never rate shaw..
Its called diatribe.

It just fits the media agenda, Shaw was an LVG signing, suggesting he doesn't rate him is just ridiculous, I've got a lot of respect for Meulensteen but what the f**k does he know about what LVG thinks of his players?

Shaw has only just recovered from a hamstring injury, an injury he picked up before the PL began, hamstring injurys are dodgy you cant rush players back particularly young players, Rojo played well against QPR, would of been cruel to drop him especially for a player who has only just came back from injury.

Sure LVG criticised his fitness levels during the summer tour but Shaw responded really well and Van Gaal has even defended him on that front when he basically told Hodgson to stfu.

Shaw will have a great career here, the bullshit this kid has had to take since signing for us is disgusting, a few months ago he was named the best LB in the league, outstanding prospect, Coles heir in the England team... signs for us and now he is fat, on some totally imaginative 160k a week and is now unrated by his manager, f*****g hilarious.
+1
Today I learned that Van Gaal agreed to us spending 30m on a player he "doesn't rate".

Get out of here René.

I'm willing to bet that Shaw will be a club legend by the time he retires 15 years or so from now.
i don't think shaw is LVG signing.i think he's woodward signing.i don't think LVG involve in any manutd transfer before netherland got knockout at the WC
"in clattenburg's last 6 games refereeing us, he has sent off 3 United players and awarded 5 penalties against us"

not sure if he's biased or just an utter s**t...
+4
He was heavily criticised for his performance at Stamford Bridge a couple of seasons ago, as usual he was immediately accused of having some kind of Manchester United bias so has been trying to prove a point since.

The club should complain, I really wanted to avoid dragging it all up again but his performance yesterday was breathtakingly one sided.

Not just the ridiculous penalty but a string of decisions, first of all the ball had gone out of play just before Vardy crossed for Leicesters first, we should never have been discussing that first penalty as Rafael was clearly fouled by Vardy seconds before and regardless of that Vardy dived anyway, De Laet committed three bookable offences at a minimum, he couldn't live with Di Maria and Rojo down the left, he went on to assist a goal, Blackett was actually fouled by Vardy (again) right before he ran in behind and Blackett then gave the pen away and received a dismissal, It was a repeat of the Rafael incident except this one was actually a pen, even outside of the major decisions almost every 50/50 was given Leicesters way.

Its incredibly infuriating as its made our performance and even our defending look shambolic when we were cruising for 60 minutes, we were even defending well up until that point, people forget Leicester only had 5 on target (two of them pens) and 4 of them came after that bullshit pen was awarded, the shock of the penalty just killed the game for us, even Carragher said it, after scoring our third if we settle for ten minutes or so the game would have been dead, Leicester had no momentum in that second half until the penalty.

Team needs to be mentally stronger though and I really don't want to be dismissive of Leicester as they worked so hard for the result but its just hard to take when we just didn't deserve it.
+5
As always, well said Jason. Pretty much exactly how I feel about Clattenburg's performance from yesterday.
Spot on, exactly how I feel too.
For years, under Fergie, it's been the case that we have performed best when our backs were up against it. Now...a gentle push and we crumble.
Lack of leaders throughout the team.

Although tbf this happened last season as well even with Vidic, Ferdinand and Evra here.

Rooney is trying but some are just not up to it mentality wise, Van Gaal will quickly identify who those people are though, its going to take another summer window to get things right, too many shrinking violets amongst the current crop.

I've got to say I really underestimated the problems this summer, I hope to be proven wrong about a few in the coming season though.
Plus, this group is still young in terms of how long it has been together. As LVG said countless times, a new hierarchy is being established and that takes time. I think Wazza is a great leader, and the loss of Evans at the back was huge in my opinion.

However, it's not a time to get reactionary. Indeed, the loss yesterday left most of us feeling gutted. Completely and entirely gutted, especially after going 3-1 up and thinking 'we've got this'. (Clattenberg had a total howler, too. An absolutely shocking display, which turned the game against us). But it's a process at the moment - one can already see progress and with each game the group will solidify itself.
our defending is just wrong in so many ways..i think dimaria s sub effected the game more than anything..whole thing crumbled once he left..no attacking outlet..no linking up..looked like everyone was on their own..
+1
Yeah Stret I don't want to get too reactionary or make sweeping statements but its not looking good for a few of em, they need to stand up and be stronger, you need a lot of mental strength to be a success here, the reception you get at away grounds is more hostile than any other team, so many obsessive c***s wanting you to fail as well, you've got to be tough.

If Keane was in that dressing room after yesterdays game he would be doing a stretch for murder lol.

Evans is one I'm very concerned about, 2 years ago he looked like Ferdinands heir with his composure on the ball and his passing range, now he just looks a nervous mess in possession and the injuries are really piling up, he just looks completely crocked, cant stay fit for 3 games.
^I've been noticing that too mate.

There were years when Evans was criticized for his lack of composure and strength. He seemed to have moved on from that stage. Now it looks like we're seeing a regression.

At 26 years old, he needs to be fit and playing more than 20 games a season to fulfill his potential.
Yeah I forgot to mention his age, Evans is 27 in Jan, not a kid anymore.
He sure doesn't played like a 27 tbh...
Wow, 27, really? The way I hear people talk about him sounds like he's still 23. He should be in his peak by now.

I wonder if Tony still has that much faith in him now :P

Honestly though, even under Fergie, especially his last years, we had those occasional breakdowns. The 4-4 Everton loss that costed us the title comes to mind. Same thing happened, we were 4-2 up and Everton scored 2 in 2 minutes in the dying minutes of the game.
The 6-1 game was similar because at 89 minutes in, we were pushing forward similarly to how we did yesterday and just like yesterday, they just lobbed our defense and were through on goal. Conceded 3 in 2 minutes.

Although yesterday definitely shows that we're pretty damn awful defensively, I think it's slightly misleading as we were 100% in control of that game until Clattenburg decided to screw us over. Hell we were even defending well until that point.
Yesterday's game was a freak result in my honest opinion. Any other day of the week we would've walked out with 3 points.

Still, there's no arguing that our defense clearly lacks leadership. We always had at the very least one leader in the back. VDS, Vidic, Evra, Rio, Gary, Staam, Schmeichel were all leaders. Who is a leader in this current defense? Jones? I think he is the closest thing we have to a leader and he's always injured, and he's still a kid. De Gea, Shaw, Jones, Rafa, Smalling are all still young. We need at least one experienced, commanding CB.
if the past is any indication of the future:

Points for 4th place finisher:
Average since 1995/96 : 68.3
Average past 10 seasons : 70.3
Average past 5 seasons : 71.8
Median since 1995/96 : 68
Highest since 1995/96 : 79 (Arsenal last season)
Lowest since 1995/96 : 60 (Liverpool in 2003/04)

Say for safety, we need 72 points to finish at 4th place,

This means we need to get 67 points from our remaining 33 matches
or roughly 2 points per game...

We can achieve this through:
2 wins and 1 loss for every 3 matches (meaning we can afford one loss as long as we win the next 2 games)

2 wins and 2 draws for every 4 matches (meaning if we draw the next 2 games, we have to win back the next 2 games)

3 wins, 1 draw and 1 loss for every 5 matches (meaning if we draw and lose in the next 2 games, we have to win in the next 3 consecutive games)

This is really a mountain to climb…

As a matter of perspective, our best premier league season was in 1999/2000 when we got 2.4 points per game for the season…

Hope we can get back to our best...
+3
Looks like it could be the most wide open and interesting season yet. I'd still say Chelsea, City and Arsenal will be top 3, while 4th has several contenders.
+1
Chelsea and City for top 2 for sure, in any order.

Don't agree that Arsenal are shoe ins for 3rd though, they've been very fortunate, they have not played well at all and are lucky to have not lost a game yet, they're start could easily have been as poor as Liverpool and United.

I think this has been one of the most indifferent starts to a PL season I've ever seen, only Chelsea have shown anything near top quality.
+1
dont want to write off other teams just yet, as there are still 33 games to go...

i still believe man utd can actually be the champion if really we can turn this around... while hoping our rivals stumble in the middle...

but one thing for sure, this will be one of the tightest premier league to date with perhaps 2-3 points difference among top 4
+1
@Theatre

We're not winning the league, no chance, the optimism is nice but we've got to be realistic.

Title winning teams are almost always built on a solid defence, we've probably got the worst defence out of last seasons top 7, with everyone fit our defence is just about acceptable but the chances of that happening with all our crocked defenders is slim to non-existent.

There is an off chance we might pull a Liverpool and go on some attacking frenzy and get a top 4 finish, we've scored 7 in our last two games, the signs are there, need to actually outscore the opposition though... lol
@Theatre, before the season started after watching your pre-season i thought you could be dark horses for the title, but for it to happen now would be a huge ask. LVG needs to regroup the team and sort it out and then go on an incredible run of 33 games to win, all the while hoping that Chelsea and City start to drop points left right and centre
perhaps you are right... as SAF has said

"attack wins you games, defence wins you titles"
although our first five games seem to be more disastrous than moyes's first five despite we have signed 6 stars at a whopping 150m and played 3 newly promoted teams...

I have a much much more positive view on United prospect at the moment and I am just as calm and excited as after the QPR match last week...


1) we have signed 6 new players, it takes time to gel, but they've been gelling much faster than I have expected. They all smile on the training grounds, go out and have fun together. A contrast different from last season where the happy spirit was virtually nonexistent. Happy players will make a happy team will make a happy performance will make fans happy.

2) indeed it's been reflected on the pitch. We've played a much more beautiful football than last year. A lot more one-touch passes and build ups. In fact 6 of our past 7 goals were from an open play. A huge huge contrast to last season's boring performance.

3) our defense was very shaky, but that's not surprising at all because first we are unluckily hit by so many injuries and second we indeed didn't strengthen our defense during the summer. For me, it's much more worrying if we have bought many quality defenders but still defend poorly. The worst kind of problem is one where it has no solution. This will give a wake up call for the Jan transfer window so I highly expect we are gonna bring in truly world class defenders. Just watch this space.

4) we lost against leicester but the refereee played a huge part in this. We actually played well and our front players linked up very nicely. Leicester was also a strong team. They have proven it against Everton, Chelsea and Arsenal.

5) all our rivals except Chelsea have stumbled so far, which make our gap between them much more managable. People say we haven't really been tested, having played only weak teams. But by the time the strong opponents come, our gel will be much stronger as well.

In every defeat is a lesson showing you how to win the victory next time.

#Be21eve
+1
Sky Sports pundit and former Red Devils defender Gary Neville pointed the finger at the players on Super Sunday, branding them ‘not tough enough’.

"Going forward they're a lot better than they have been in the last 12-18months and that's a positive," said Neville.

"But in the first half, every ball that got played forward from distance a Leicester player won it, whether it was the first ball or the second ball. In the second half, a decision goes against them but make no mistake about it they're soft centred.

"There's no doubt Manchester United are soft-centered. They're not tough enough"
Gary Neville
"There's no doubt Manchester United are soft-centred. They're not tough enough.

"You saw out there today [in the Manchester City versus Chelsea match] that every time a ball went up to Diego Costa - he was getting battered by (Eliaquim) Mangala - and it was the same at the other end with John Terry and Gary Cahill.

"I thought the midfield three for United and the back four got bullied."

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/29326/9482654/gary-neville-soft-centred-manchester-united-were-bullied-by-leicester
+2
Exactly, we need a brick CDM. Should have brought in Nigel De Jong. No one bullies the bully.
You don't necessarily need a new player to solve this. If nothing else changes and you bring in de Jong, you still have 6 soft players and one guy standing his ground collecting yellows. The mentality and execution of the current players need to change.
Oh no we don't need bullies. We simply need the kids to learn and man up. We've got a wonderful collection of individuals most of which need to learn what the EPL is truly about.
Call this game school fees and move on. I'm sure they'll look back on this game gutted they've been bitchslapped and do whata man does when this happen: Come out again roaring and stronger. What this space.
+1
Gary is right, I've been saying this for months, the team has gone mentally soft.

I know since SAF's retirement they have perhaps been under a level of scrutiny never seen before in the history of English football but some of them have got to man the f**k up and show a bit of fight.

The team needs to find a warrior defender like Vidic to marshall the defence and we need a robust vocal presence in midfield like Keano.

Our team is brimming with talent, we have so many wonderful technicians but its lacking the dirtier side of the game that is so essential, we need to find a better balance.
+2
I honestly have been feeling depressed all day because of this game. Our defensive collapse reminded me of the dying minutes of the 6-1 loss, where the entire team pushed forward in hopes of scoring, and we ended up conceded 3 in 3 minutes.

That twat Clattenburg can't be blamed for us conceding 5 goals. But he was the catalyst behind it for sure. At 3-1 there really wasn't anyway back for Leicester until he decided to give them a penalty just for the lulz, which completely crushed our confidence and motivated the opponents to score again. De Laet ended up being one of the most important players on the pitch after some awful challenges that should've seen him sent off twice easily.

I'm going through a tough time this week and the one thing that I was truly looking forward to was this game. Feels like I've been punched in the heart, lol.

Anyway, after every game I try to look at the positives. I think today we played very well offensively. Falcao looking comfortable in the new team and ADM keeps reminding Real Madrid why they made a mistake letting him go, the guy is a genius.
Our defense desperately needs to step up though.
You know there's something wrong when I was terrified every time LEICESTER CITY had the ball past our half. This shouldn't happen.

I think we'll be fine this season. A slow start was expected. Today's game was a freak result that honestly we couldn't have controlled. Had any other ref been assigned to this game, we would've won for sure.
We should at least take comfort in knowing our attack has scored 7 in 2 games. If our defense don't f**k up consistently, we might do very well this season.

Anyway, hats off to Leicester and their fans! Awesome performance by them and their fans were absolutely fantastic
+7
Stay positive mate. It may be hard to tell right now, but we're on the way back. To be a title winning squad, we will have to tighten up the defense first, but we're scoring goals right now, and that's something we didn't do last season.
+1
That's true mate.
I also think we're on the right track. We haven't had this much attacking flair since Ronaldo left and quite frankly I think this team might be even better attacking-wise than the 07-09 one. I think we'll score tons of goals this season.
I see people comparing Moyes's start to LvG's, but I think the 5 points we got under Van Gaal is misleading. The progress can be seen in Van Gaal's games already. The way we're passing the ball, the way we're slicing our opponents open, we're playing much better than we were last season in all honesty, no matter the result.

But today was just incredibly unlucky. Fun Fact, Leicester had 5 shots on target.
5 shots on target, 5 goals.
Yea mate it was not totally ref fault...even after that penalty we cud've defended properly..but instead everyone lost their cool and crumbled under pressure...we need some leader at the back..DDG is not commanding in the defense..he just does his job..Need someone to take up the responsibility...i expect Smalling or Jones to do this...letting Evra,Rio and Vidic at the same time is effecting us imo..one experienced player should be present in the team
Yeah ditto that Badge,

I can only say well done Leicester

They gave us what all fans want to see,
the fire to win.

Our goals were a class above theirs,
but they still defiantly refused to be outdone

Good on them
I just hope LVG kicked many boots and multiple hairdryers
Our Reds were made to look a bunch of overpaid b!tches by a newly promoted side
Well done to Leicester
We still need a destroyer or a bully CDM. Our back 4 have been poor, but I think Blind and Herrera did not offer enough support.

I'm still angry about the ref. First goal, the ball was out before the cross was made. Second, all Rafael did was chase back, Vardy did the rest. De Laet should be sent off long ago, even the commentator said there was 3 challenges should be booked.

Only PL ref can screw up this much. Howard Webb, Clattenburg, best ref in England? Yea they are.
After all this, amazingly we're still only 4 points off a champions league spot lol
Amazing. Simply amazing. My hopes stays strong. We havn't faced any big teams yet though lmao
fact is our position should be waaaaay better, out of the 5 teams we have played so far 3 were newly promoted teams, 1 midtable team and another relegation fighting team, and we only managed to get 1 win out of 5, these were all the kind of games you would expect united to win, specially since this time last year we had more points and a tougher schedule and we had not spent all this money
+8
It's early days with a relatively new team. We'll improve game by game by being more organised and controlled on and off the ball.
Although your not much behind you haven't played any of the top ten last season. Suggesting it's going to take a very big performance in order to keep level get alone catch up. In order to match Arsenal's 79 points in 4th place last season, although this was a very high point 4th place, you need 2.24 points per game the rest of the season when you have played many of the 'easy' games.
4 points away from top 4

2 points away from 20th position


+8
Newcastle and Burnley still have hope for CL
@ Jamesutd it's all about the trajectory. Sure, MU had more points at this time last year, but they blew their load early on and just got worse as the season went on. This team has the opposite feel to it. They are getting better (at least offensively) and will improve game to game and should finish strong.
+3
@Gunning

Flawed logic.

Last seasons top 10 could look very different to this seasons top 10.

Form is a factor as well, as Dtouch said this United side looks to be improving, the best is yet to come, we could be a totally different animal come December.

Were under new management, Van Gaal has always been a slow starter and we've got 5 or even 6 new players coming into the starting 11 not just the squad, were going to get better for sure.
While I'm sure last seasons top 10 will have same differences to this seasons it is still reasonable and logically to believe that the average quality of sides that finished in top 10 last season will be higher than those that did not.

I'm not disagreeing that you will improve, new signings new managers injuries etc. You will get a lot better. The problem is that you will also have more tough games when you are in the kind of position where you can afford very few slip ups if you want to achieve top four.

Although Moyes did have a better start against tough opposition the problem was not his start but how the team got worse rather than better under him.


Premier League Table

Form
PTS
GD
GA
GF
L
D
W
Pl
Pos
13
9
7
16
0
1
4
5
1
10
6
3
9
1
1
3
5
2
10
0
4
4
1
1
3
5
3
9
4
6
10
0
3
2
5
4
9
2
6
8
2
0
3
5
5
8
3
5
8
1
2
2
5
6
8
1
8
9
1
2
2
5
7
7
1
8
9
2
1
2
5
8
7
1
6
7
2
1
2
5
9
6
0
7
7
1
3
1
5
10
6
-1
8
7
3
0
2
5
11
5
1
8
9
2
2
1
5
12
5
-1
5
4
2
2
1
5
13
5
-2
13
11
2
2
1
5
14
5
-2
10
8
2
2
1
5
15
5
-4
7
3
2
2
1
5
16
4
-1
6
5
1
4
0
5
17
4
-8
11
3
3
1
1
5
18
3
-3
4
1
2
3
0
5
19
3
-6
11
5
2
3
0
5
20
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