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we are buying Pogba
Because the thread I'd like to reply to will be moved down to the next page (Arsenal are quite the active forum at times), I'm just going to respond with a new thread so that not only Philosophy, but others interested, will be able to participate in this discussion.

Maybe I'll learn something from you all.

First of all, the issue is not that simple. To pretend like it's a 'simple' issue would be lazy thinking. I don't believe in simplicity when tackling problems, and I certainly don't play down problems that need to be addressed either.

You said it's simple in that Ozil does not fit Arsene's vision of the squad sometimes, and that this was especially the case against the more competitive sides. My problem is that Arsenal do not appear to have an identity, a game plan, or a natural way of playing. When I watch Arsenal play football, I don't see a unified collective. Rather than isolating Ozil, for example, you should ask yourself what exactly Arsene wants from his squad, whether or not it's consistently demonstrated in his team tactics, and whether or not this vision is an efficient and effective means of achieving results.

You're being unreasonable when expecting Ozil to perform at a level compatible with YOUR interpretation of the transfer fee. The following was my response to another individual about Ozil's transfer fee:

"The high expectations are understandable. Ozil is, after all, a great player who's made a name for himself at superpower entities like Real Madrid and the Germany national team. But these expectations should be grounded on objective premises, and they should remain logical.

Ozil should be expected to perform relative to his own capacity, skill-sets, and potential, and how he can put to use those qualities for Arsenal. To demand anything more under the premise of having spent a large transfer sum for his signature is illogical.

We have to take into consideration a few other points here. Arsene and the club were the ones adamant on acquiring his signature. They were responsible for his transfer fee. Whether that was a fair reflection of Ozil's services is not a discussion that concerns Ozil himself. It isn't Ozil's fault the club decided to spend what they did, right?

That being said, there are certain things Ozil shouldn't be held accountable for, especially if he had no direct control over said complaint."

You also said Ozil was supposed to be your "game changer". Read the comments I made above your post. It would take a ridiculous amount of space if I copy and pasted them here.

"Ask yourself y is that when ozil returned to lineup, carzola form started dipping gradually in the last five games , he was playing brilliantly until ozil came back."

What? Forget causation, is there even any semblance of a correlation here? Prove there's a relation here.

The match against Manchester City could possibly have conjured up illusions for many of you in the sense that it may not have actually been the personnel that achieved victory, but a combination of other factors. Once again you're simplifying a complex idea.

Gunner3

Prove Sanchez's dip in form was the result of Ozil's inclusion. It's not just Sanchez and Ozil that play in different rhythm, but the entire midfield and forward line. That problem shouldn't be attributed to any one individual. Actually, if the majority of the team appear to be out of sync, there is a problem within the tactical domain. Playing as a team is a fundamental aspect of football. If Arsenal can't even do that right against competitive opposition, then one must look to Arsene for questions.
+1
My point was more to blame on Arsene. The team was playing great and gelling but bringing in Ozil back too quickly caused a bit of distruption (same when he brought Ramsey, Welbeck, etc). The team plays great when Santi is behind the striker so I feel he should stay there.

Besides yesterday Ozil has been doing well. Still don't think he's essential to the team ATM. I really prefer a CAM like Fabregas that dictates the tempo of a team - he was like an orchestrator for us. Ozil plays in a different way but will take time to make the team play his way. I don't like how he acted like Alexis or Giroud were at fault for some of his bad passes yesterday, I don't think this helps him or the team.
But we can't simply attribute any disruption in team performance simply to playing Ozil. Not that this isn't the case, but this could be down to a number of other factors that haven't been noticed.

Think about this question for a second - did Arsenal ever have to deal with any sort of set-backs while looking to find a comfortable rhythm, but before Ozil was even fit enough to participate in the training sessions?

I used to watch Arsenal quite regularly back when Fabregas was a regular at the club. It wasn't Fabregas dictating the tempo of the match. It would be quite difficult to dictate the tempo of a match from such an advanced position, much less on his own.

But like I said previously today, everyone has their preferences when it comes to a particular position. Personally, I like my AM's to be capable of combining with those around them, intelligent off-the-ball movement, incisive passing, great eye for the final play, and being able to present themselves with an opportunity for a goal every now and then.

When on form, and as an AM, I see no equal to Ozil. His intelligence is often ignored. He is a VERY intelligent player.

Ozil's attitude when play breaks down is frustrating, I agree. Actually, that might be a result of his ego (coming from Real Madrid to Arsenal does that to you lol). Whatever the reason behind it, he should be spoken to about that. It's poor attitude from him.
It's a very bad attitude from him and affects how much he contributes because of a few things don't go for him, it seems to be a downward spiral. No one doubts his ability and that's why its frustrating at times to see him cruising.

Fabregas did dictate tempo. He would come all the way back to get the ball, Chang positions on the pitch, and slow down the team and speed it up when needed. Whenever we were close to giving up the lead or possession he would slow everything down and wave his hand to tell everyone to calm down.

I do think before we started getting into a rythmn of absorbing pressure then breaking quickly. Santi brings in wingers bettwr but that's also from being at the club longer and knowing everyone's movements.

Before the Monaco game I didnt mind Ozil playing on the left. He started to track back and was able to lose his marker to score goals because players were focused on Santi, Giroud, and Walcott/alexis.

It's really a big game thing for Ozil. Big games are more frustrating and passes don't always work out. This lets him down and doesn't allow him to keep motivation. Otherwise in other games he has great touches and passes.
+1
I think Gooners should refrain from judging Ozil's performances without context. I think this is more of an issue regarding the team as a whole. Instead of isolating certain players, maybe you should all focus on Arsenal's problems from a holistic perspective.

Don't take this the wrong way, but there are a number of problems with Arsenal.
+1
I never said there wasn't- there clearly is but Ozil's critics aren't wrong. I don't think he should be in big games ahead of a few other players otherwise in smaller games he's good.
But doesn't that notion change once you delve deeper into Arsenal's problems? Is it not possible that depending on how the team is set up, Ozil, whether or not he's perceived to be a problem, could in fact be part of a formula for the solution?

Many are still under the assumption that what Arsene is doing is correct, and that what really needs to be done is simply making like-for-like (or close to it) changes. But there have been many occasions this season that suggest Arsene is getting it tactically wrong.

Arsenal should have been prepared far better against Spurs and Monaco, for example. If injuries are a concern, then compensate for them by addressing the tactical aspect of the team. If you think that still wouldn't be enough, then this is a lack of ambition.
Meringue and Ozil = still a better love story than twilight.
+7
I got your back brah

https://31.media.tumblr.com/1dca058e5011b47d002dda514c9e04db/tumblr_nfzmpqOYFi1rmwbz3o1_500.gif
+2
I don't think it's Ozil's "fault", but his return did disrupt a good thing. We've spoken about this before on this forum that Alexis and Ozil don't really fit well together because Alexis slows the game down a bit and is great with possession, whereas Ozil is at his best when the game is fast and people around him are making runs to receive the ball.

As for Cazorla, in a bid to fit Ozil into the team, he has been moved around and it is plausible to say that this affected his performance a bit.

So yes I do think there is no natural way to get the best out of all three of them at the same time. Under the circumstances, I'd rather have Alexis peaking than Ozil.
There is no discernible proof to suggest that Ozil played a part in disrupting something Arsenal had going. That is merely attempting to correlate one event with another. In essence, speculation. One might ask what exactly this "good thing" was. Arsenal's performances on average have been decent at best, unable to string together more than 2 matches in a row in which they've comfortably finished 90 minutes. This trend has been prevalent all season.

Looking at the type of players Cazorla, Ozil, and Sanchez are, and the skill-set at their disposal, there shouldn't be a need to have to choose between one or the other. They're all very intelligent players capable of playing with an emphasis on either possession or counter-attacking football. To think that they cannot play together is a bit silly. It's up to the manager to be able to accommodate such talent in the overall functionality of the team.

The problem, though, is the lack of a clear winning strategy. The players are misused even. There is a naivety about Arsenal. Almost an unwillingness to change or adapt to not only their opposition, but the resources at their disposal.

Is it possible that the way the players are deployed has an effect on how they play with each other? Meaning it could be a tactical issue?
Did anyone saw the Spurs' game highlights? lmaoo that made me feel a lot better.
It's like they had 2 Mertesackers at CB :P I agree though...today I said, "I feel so much better when other EPL teams fail as bad as we do in the same week." Going back into the league, it makes me more at ease knowing that we may not be the only ones very unsettled (especially spurs and pool being so close to us in points)
Hahha, same with Liverpool. Everton the only team in the Europa now.
Our defense was pretty good, we only conceded one and it took them 76 minutes to score. That was also a makeshift defense with 2 out of favor defenders. We were just tired playing 3 games in a week.
Hey guys glad you liked the analysis. A couple of people had good questions so I'll answer them now and hope that they see it before the page gets buried lol

@Mekus12: you asked why I don't have faith in either keeper and want a better one? I'm actually really sad still that we lost Fabianski. I'll explain the problems with both.

Szczesny: too arrogant and not willing to learn from his lessons. He's a great shot stopped but his positioning is terrible, I still think back to the goal Costa scored, why on earth would a keeper come out in that situation? Terrible judgement and there's been countless others, Southampton comes to mind etc. Bit like Wilshere really, too immature.

Ospina: he has been far from the brilliant keeper I saw in the World Cup for Columbia, nowhere near his best so maybe in time he'll improve. But he currently has two big problems to fix. Firstly if I see him punch away any more balls he could easily catch I'm gonna catch a plane to England and punch HIM. All it does is give the bloke following up the striker, a second chance with an open net if he's alert enough to nip in. Just catch the fkn ball ffs.
Secondly, his ball distribution is woeful. This is important for an Arsenal keeper because as a possession intense side we pass back to our keeper often and under any sort of pressure those return balls from him are either ending up going for a throw in in our half or worse, bobbling up in the air and being challenged for deep in our own half and I'm sick of seeing it.

Splashing out money for a top keeper is actually better value than for an outfield player because you get more miles out of them. Whereas most mids for example slow down at around 33 yrs old, many top keepers will keep going till they're 40. They don't require the kind of stamina a mid needs and so they have better longevity.

@GoonerGooner: you asked why Schneiderlin is the top pick and not a similar player like Wanyama? I'll explain that one for you too. Watching him for Southampton it's harder to realise than watching him play for France, where he is far more effective due to the attacking players calibre he's passing to. Arteta is vital to this team, why is that? The two things he gives us are his leadership, veteran qualities of calming the team, maintaining direction on the pitch.

And the second thing he gives us is even more vital. If you break down our attacking style to it's simplest form, Arsenal basically use width to stretch defended and create wider gaps between defenders for our short 1 touch passing game. We then utilise the vertical space by having a forward player make a run and win possession again higher up by dropping in a midfielder in this newly created vertical space. What Arteta does that is so crucial is he distributes the ball to the wings accurately. There's no player in our team save maybe Cazorla who can place a long ball or long ground pass as accurately as he can. He distributes to players like Walcott and our gungho fullbacks and creates the width for our attack. If you rewind far enough to most of the Arsenal passing moves that end in goals last season, chances are it started from a pass from Mertesacker to Arteta and then to the wing. And ended with Ramsey doing something ridiculously good...

Schneiderlin does this brilliantly for France, I have no doubt in my mind he can fill this vital role for us. What he does do better than Arteta is tackle and hold his own physically. It remains to be seen how he'll do as a leader but he seems pretty calm and relaxed when he plays. Wanyama is indeed a better tackler but he bulldozes through the centre rather than passing to the wings, that's why Schneiderlin is a better fit.

Questions answered. Now moving forwards, given what I said yesterday about attacking width, rogue fullbacks, positional discipline, player synergy for Ozil etc this is what I'd like to see for the immediate future. When Ramsey, Arteta and Debuchy are fit again they walk into the starting 11 for Ox, Coquelin and Bellerin respectively in my eyes. Although I would choose Coquelin against more physical teams. In a 4-1-4-1 formation to keep us more defensively compact and ensure that Coquelin stays back.

----------Ospina(not great but better than Tex)
Bellerin,Merts,Kos,Monreal
----------Coquelin
Sanchez,Cazorla,Oxlade,Ozil
-----------Giroud
+1
Oh and my dream signings team lol

Better GK
Debuchy,Varane,Kos,Monreal
Schneiderlin,Ramsey
Reus,Ozil,Cazorla
Sanchez

It's fun to dream... :(
I'll take Santi out and put Ox in. But that would still be dreaming. lol
i want to see gabriel in the team.....because going forward we need someone else than per to be partnered with Kos....the longer we delay that the longer we would struggle.... i would love to see varane but madrid wont sell him to us and to be honest why would he want to leave madrid for us?
+1
I've explained this before, Gabriel is a long term replacement for Kos, they play the same way. You can't have two like for like CBs as a pairing, it creates disorganisation, like it did with Koscielny and Vermaelen as the pairing. Chambers is supposed to be cover for Merts but I'd rather someone better, so I suggested the best possible fit in Varane. If you've ever watched France play, the synergy between Varane and Kos at the heart of their defense, is outstanding.

I did say they were dream signings :)
Zilch would it work if we played this back line

Chambers Merts Kos Gibbs

Or

Bellerin Merts Kos Nacho
Yes but not great. Only problem would depend on who plays RW. Chambers isn't a good RB, that's the problem, so you'd need an RW that can attack solo and still drop deep to help out. A fully fit Walcott in top form comes to mind. Debuchy is obviously the best choice when he's fit.
I agree, we just need Arsene to instruct Debuchy if Gibbs is playing LB to work out when to attack and when to defend.
Tbh I think Monreal's ahead of Gibbs for now. He and Debuchy would provide the required balance.
That would mean that this is are second choice back line

Bellerin Chambers Gabriel Gibbs

I'm probably alone in thinking this but I think we should keep Jenkinson as second choice as he is much more defensively solid and send Bellerin out on loan to another EPL club.
No you're not alone, I like Jenkinson, great calm play on the ball and physical. Bellerin is one for the future but atm he concerns me.
+1
Red Gunning Gooner:

Oh where, oh where, has my Arsenal gone?
My invincible breed.
Come on you Gooners,
my beautiful dream.
Thoughts on Ospina? Every since the talk about him carrying an injury he doesn't look as good and seems to lack communication with Per (he's always running for the same balls as per with no shout).

I think he can get better since he's new but doesn't look so different than Tex.
Or it's the other way around; Per always in his way? who knows, we can only read body languages from our TV or stand.


Tex has been reckless and so on for a couple of years now, only god knows how he managed to start ahead of Fabianski, who I thought was a good goalie. Luckily for Tex, Wenger kept faith in him. But to compare Tex with Ospina is not right. Ospina had one or two bad games, suddenly he's Tex 2.0? If you're judging him from yesterday's match, then you're 100% wrong. It takes 10 players on the patch for a opponent to get to the goalie, our last man. To sum it up, we sucked ars yesterday and a goalie can't do much.

But like you said, he can get better with his English and all. Plus, it's his first season.
Never said he's Tex 2.0 because aside from Tex's skills as you said he's reckless and has bad mentality. But so far he isn't much better skill wise. He is parrying too much (thought he only did that in the World Cup because the ball was weird) and could've saved a couple shots at him. I think his distribution is a lot better than Tex. It helps us keep posession better.
Cloudst & I have pointed out that the only reason he parrying the ball and not grabbing it is because of his height and his style. I don't remember any goal conceded because he punched it out.
So far we've been lucky that it hasn't fallen to an opp player.
Ospina has made several bad mistakes and has gotten away with them, one can only cheat death for so long, needs to be more composed and confident imo.
While you guy's are bashing Tex don't forget he did manage to share the golden gloves..Have you guy's ever considered that with his height advantage and better reflexes he could have reacted better to the first goal. Say what you will about sczcesny's decision making. But he has pulled off so many saves where he had to react to the ball changing direction...
hmmm we will come back in the second leg, remember guys, we are arsenal, we always get heart attacks and always boss one leg of a CL tie:P... on another note, do u think its time for Gabriel to get more first team exposure?
+2
2012 - lose 4-0 to Milan in the 1st leg...score 3...close but not close enough. Agg 4-3

2013 - lose 1-3 to Bayern in the 1st leg...win 2-0 in Munich...knocked out by away goals. Agg 3-3

2014 - lose 0-2 to Bayern again in the 1st leg..nervy draw to make the aggregate 3-1.

This is the 4th consecutive time we've lost the 1st leg by 2+ goals at this stage of the competition effectively killing off the tie. I like your optimism and I really do hope we can come back but history is showing us a worrying trend. This was arguably the easiest fixture out of all those 4 teams and we still managed to shoot ourselves in the foot. Even if we by some miracle manage to make it to the QFs, do you really think we can compete against the big boys of Europe? I think it's best to cut our losses and focus on getting top 3 and FA Cup, especially now that Liverpool and Spurs are out of Europa League.
Pretty sure I heard that no team at this stage has ever advanced after being down by 2 away goals. I honestly think we will dominate the away tie somehow but still lose on away goals.
@Shaymoose Definitely not since the inception of the Champions League. The last time a team to advance after losing 1-3 at home was Ajax who beat Benfica on penalties to go through to semi finals of the 1968/69 European Cup.
I think we have a better chance away from home than we ever did at home. Reason being the Emirates crowd. They just don't hold back on their negative feelings towards players, even at a time when players need all the positivity they can get(understandable yes but not helpful at all). Look at what happened to Giroud. Away from home, there will be less pressure plus everyone already assumes it's over...no point giving up now just because of two goals..have you all forgotten what happened between Chelsea and Napoli
I'm looking forward to the game because we're gonna have to take a lot of chances. Every players knows we have to score so we'll have to bring our attacking game to another level. Hopefully Monaco lit a fire under our ass.
Lukaku looks like he's gone off with a hamstring injury, if so he's definetly out for our game. Massive advantage to us. We haven't been good enough against Everton in our recent games against them albeit the Cup game where we did alright, I don't remember the last time we beat them in the league.
We said the same thing when Monaco lost a few of their first team regulars through injury. This is Arsenal!! home of Myocardial Infarctions and high blood pressure. Did you forget??
+4
So when I try to be optimistic I get this and when I try to speak in a realistic manner I'm a pessimist. You people are never satisfied, cut the bullshit so I can post without having to deal with people's two-faced responses.
+3
lol Viper, if it's any consolation I've been more than pleased with your posts since our last confrontation. An Everton squad without Lukaku is certainly worse off than him being fit and playing up top.
I too agree that you have become a better user than when you first starting posting Viper, i actually bother reading your posts now. Please dont go back to your constantly-slating the-team-you-support-Viper.

Anyways, it will be an advantage for us, but that's only if we take advantage of it. And from Monaco, i think we've learnt that there really is no easy game in the top flight, no matter what. Not expecting an easy game at all.
Meanwhile in the Feyenoord - Roma match...Feyenoord fans throwing an inflatable plastic banana at Gervinho with another clearly visible behind the goalline. Gervinho paid no mind to them and told the ref don't stop the game and that he's okay to continue :) :)
the world is infested with soulless cretins.
+6
Did not expect that from the Dutch fans of all people.
+7
You cannot control people.

But you can control the consequences for their actions.

IMO sever punishment should be issued for all who partake in racism.
+1
Feyenoord fans are the worst though, Jujex. They're similar to the worst fans of Lazio (so, most of them) or the worst of your own Juve fanbase in Italy. They are basically retarded monkeys who think they're a supreme race and therefore consider other normal human beings retarded monkeys.
If there is racism in football there's racism in the country of origin. As for getting rid of it in football, I really don't understand how fifa can't control people from throwing things in a stadium. I've never seen it happen in american football, basketball or any other sport. More security needed and big consequences.
Well played to Gervinho on ignoring it and playing on, must've taken a lot of strength and character.
Already scared of Lukaku in our next game or even Everton as a whole.
+1
I think we'll be fine honestly. That's actually the annoying part.
+1
If you see a pattern to our performances we are great and then we majorly s**t the bed and we return to form again...
don't be. you are just a tiny bit better than Young Boys ;)

have faith.
+4


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Premier League Table

Form
PTS
GD
GA
GF
L
D
W
Pl
Pos
60
34
22
56
2
6
18
26
1
55
31
25
56
3
7
16
26
2
48
20
29
49
6
6
14
26
3
47
18
26
44
5
8
13
26
4
46
19
19
38
8
4
14
26
5
45
9
29
38
7
6
13
26
6
44
5
36
41
8
5
13
26
7
39
8
30
38
7
9
10
26
8
37
-4
34
30
9
7
10
26
9
36
-4
34
30
10
6
10
26
10
32
-11
42
31
10
8
8
26
11
28
-4
37
33
10
10
6
26
12
27
-9
37
28
11
9
6
26
13
27
-10
34
24
11
9
6
26
14
26
-10
35
25
12
8
6
26
15
25
-14
36
22
9
13
4
26
16
22
-18
45
27
16
4
6
26
17
22
-19
44
25
12
10
4
26
18
22
-23
36
13
14
7
5
26
19
18
-18
42
24
16
6
4
26
20
C/L  C/L Qualifying  UEFA Cup  Relegation 

UEFA Champions League Table

Form
PTS
GD
GA
GF
L
D
W
Pl
Pos
13
10
4
14
1
1
4
6
1
13
7
8
15
1
1
4
6
2
6
-2
10
8
2
3
1
6
3
1
-15
19
4
5
1
0
6
4

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