We are all very pleased to have you back as a full member, Schweinsteiger.

Thank you for your apology, and I look forward to interacting with you under less confrontational circumstances

1. You broke site rules when you went to the City page and flammed them.

From what I can tell, this was my ONLY violation of the rules

2. When your comments were deleted and Magneto told you to stop, you did not listen, instead you went on a diatribe about how you should be allowed to troll. You even used the word trolling to describe how you were behaving, thus confirming to the mod staff that you know you broke site rules while also communicating your intent to do it again in the future should you deem it ok. This communication of intent to continue breaking site rules even after several mods clearly told you the rules and the consequences for breaking the rules is a big deal, and a large contribution to why you now find yourself on status.

Once he told me to stop "trolling, " I did. I posted two or three posts further to explain my actions and the reasoning behind it, not to start an argument or a whole e-political discussion about trolling.

3. You posted a picture that included a epithat against people with disabilities. You claim that it was just a joke, but that is the problem, our site rules clearly forbid the use of epithet's even as jokes. Why? It is a serious issue even when someone tries to use it as a joke. We understand that you weren't trying to insult anyone directly, but using that type of humor/language is a violation of this site's rules regardless of intent. Similarly, a user would get in trouble for jokes that are racist, sexist, homophobic, classist, or really, any other joke that is highly offensive to people who identify as members of that group. It is widely known that the term "retarded" is offensive.

I'd tell you to refer to my post on GreatScot's wall but you've obviously seen it already. So my sense of humor is different than yours, I can understand that. Until you provide me with proof that someone here was offended in any way by the picture I posted, I don't think this should be held against me, especially since it was just a joke.

4. While not entirely your fault, your actions have caused other users to behave poorly. There have been numerous users jumping onto your "justified trolling" bandwagon, and you have only further encouraged them. This is an issue as it directly goes against community rules and the wishes of the site owners. You have been given ample opportunity to admit that you broke site rules, but have only further transgressed.

"While not entirely your fault" hmmmmmmmm.... So it's not my fault, but I get punished for it anyway? That totally makes sense. And tell me, how have I encouraged them? I never once told anybody to defend me, take my side, like my posts, etc. It was all their own doing. I posted three comments on the City page initially, and in no way, shape, or form did I tell or encourage people to troll or defend trolling. So why am I getting in trouble for other peoples' actions?

"You have been given ample opportunity to admit that you broke site rules"
I was never told to admit to breaking the rules, nor do I see how that would be necessary. If there's all this discussion and arguments on my wall and around my posts, then obviously I'm aware I did something wrong.
"You even used the word trolling to describe how you were behaving, thus confirming TO THE MOD staff THAT YOU KNOW YOU broke THE SITE rules.... "
Doesn't that just counter-act your argument of my lack of acknowledgement of "breaking the rules"? Since I obviously was aware that I was breaking them.... In your opinion.

"while also communicating your intent to do it again in the future should you deem it ok. "

Where, explicitly, did I say "I'm going to troll the City (or any other team for that matter) forums again. "? Nowhere, that's where.

My initial post on the City forums was something along the lines of "Bummer, maybe it would have been best if you never got bought by a super-rich Sheikh you wouldn't face this disappointment year after year and you'd just be a decent mid-table team"
HOW IS THAT TO BE construed AS trolling? ITS FACT. If a team I supported (god forbid) got bought by an oil billionaire and was brought from being an average team with good seasons and bad seasons, to playing in Europe's elite competitions, only to lose, I wouldn't want that! I wouldn't want high expectations only to be disappointed year after year, I'd rather have just been where we were initially.

Now tell me, how do you find that to be trolling? Or trolling enough to find me on "status" even though I've done nothing in the past two and a half years.

Also:

"Troll status disables your ability to post comments anywhere but your wall and in the forum page"

I have no ability to post in my own forum page, please change that immediately as you have just lied to me

I've not lied to you....

Your own wall literally means your own comment wall. As in the one you are commenting on right now. And the forum page I meant was not the Bayern team wall, but the forum page titled, "Status Appeals".

You will remain unable to post on the Bayern wall until you are off status. Let me read through and respond to your longer post in a minute

Unfortunate norms of a society is that one is judged on what their last action is, not what they are like for an extended time before it. We're expected to follow acceptable terms, and when we don't, we're called up on it and we've got to take responsibility for our actions.

What you're brushing off as a joke (that picture) is a very serious issue. That is what has tipped things against you. It cannot be a "sense of humour" thing, because there are certain things we don't want this website to be a part of and that is one such post. Infact, the only reason your account still stands is the fact that we've considered your previous history being clean and are giving you one last chance. That is what status is all about.

With regards to you being aware of breaking the site rules, you should have been aware of it when you were warned. Unfortunately, you took the egging on of the rest of the members a lot more seriously, hence posting that pic, and then actually make that sarcastic "Thank you mods" post which didn't go unnoticed either. Instead of showing any signs of understanding that you made a mistake to troll, you've gone on to claim to me that you'll "show them" (refer to my quoting your post below).

To be honest, I think you've got to actually take some time off, consider everything and return with a statement of how you will fit into the norms of the site. That will help you a lot more than the current approach you are taking where you claim innocence or call us liars. Please consider your further posts very carefully before you post again.

Maddy(staff)

Very well.

In regards to the rule I allegedly broke, this is what it says:
"Excessive Team / Player Bashing / 'Trolling'"

Excessive, as in MORE than once, often, a lot, more than necessary, what have you. That is not what I did, I posted in the city forums once. Once is not excessive

So let me get this straight, a picture that I posted with no intent to offend anyone and just posted as a joke, is what is getting me in the most trouble? A picture that if you were to ask everyone on this site their unbiased opinion of, likely the vast majority would respond positively and/or comically to said picture?

I have the feeling that all of this controversy is you mods ganging up on me. The wrongs I've done are very minimal and had it been someone who supports an EPL team, or one of your teams, I feel like they'd just get a slap on the wrist as opposed to what I've gotten.

You say the rules are up to interpretation, and that is exactly what you're doing. The verbatim rules that are posted in the forum sections do not expressly forbid anything that I've done. All of this punishment is collaboration between three mods against me, all over an initial issue that was minimally in violation of the rules at best.

Can you explain that to me?

Again with the "I've been wronged approach". Very well, lets have it your way. That symbol "/" signifies the word "or". So it is a rule that is meant for when someone bashes their "own" team excessively, or a player, or trolls another team. You are guilty on count of the third. But that just got you a warning. What got you on status has been your behaviour after that incident. It is rather unfortunate that you remain blind to it.

If you'd like to find solace in the rules, you won't

1. So we agree that your comment on City's was was trolling? But then why do you say, "HOW IS THAT TO BE construed AS trolling? ITS fact". Trolling can be facts. For instance, you could have gone on the City page and said, "Hey, you guys finished last in your group, and now you don't even get to play in Europa league", and that could be seen as trolling. Is it true? Sure. Is it trolling? Yes. Why? Because it incites the City community. If you post something on their wall that pisses them off, it is trolling. And clearly it pissed them off. So, did you admit that you were trolling or not?

2. Yes, you stopped posting in City's page. Thank you for that. If you hadn't you would be banned by now. But let me try to explain this again, you still posted a lot of stuff defending your actions. Let's look at the following things you said after you were told to stop:
"I only troll when I have a reason to"
"I will troll like there is tomorrow"
"that's when they should know the truth, which I bring to them"

Hmm, sounds to me like you are guilty of everything I've said you are guilty of. Namingly trolling and then exhibiting an intent to troll more in the future. As I've said, THE main reason you are on status now is because you've repeatedly justified your trolling and repeatedly said you would do it again.

3. I'm offended by your picture. I have siblings with disabilities. Using the word retarded to imply someone is dumb or acting like an idiot disgusts me. Seriously, you need to reevaluate your humor if you find that funny. Belittling other humans because of a disability they have no control over.... Just sad man.

4. Yes, I acknowledge that it isn't entirely your fault. I said that because I am trying to be fair, and I realize that you haven't gone around telling everybody to join you. If anything, I was trying to make the point that this is the smallest factor in you getting put on status. But I guess I didn't make that clear.

As for the admission thing, you are right. I don't think anyone told you to admit that you are wrong. However, we have told you that you are wrong, and rather than coming to the realization that you have been out of line independently from our direction, you have fought against it. When I said, "you have been given ample opportunity.... " I mean that if you had just listened to us, and realized that you have been out of line, and then said, "wow guys, I didn't mean to do all that, but I see that I did. Sorry, won't happen again", we would have already forgotten about all this. Instead you went on your rant about justified trolling and how you're the bringer of truth.

"Where, explicitly, did I say "I'm going to troll the City (or any other team for that matter) forums again. "? Nowhere, that's where. "
-I already listed several quotes from you where you clearly state your intent to continue trolling and "truth telling".

"I wouldn't want high expectations only to be disappointed year after year, I'd rather have just been where we were initially. "
-Please, don't insult my intelligence. You were not trying to communicate some little empathetic sentiment about how you feel bad for the City fans. You were laughing in their face and using satire and sarcasm to condescend them. This is quite clear in these following comments from you:

"supporters of other teams uniting together to laugh at and mock city for being such a joke of a team"
"But when these billionaire-funded teams like Chelsea and Man City and even PSG now get knocked out or lose, I will troll like there is tomorrow. "
"They have a false sense of pride that they should only acquire after years and decades of success, not overnight with the acquisition of another €50m player"

Hey, didn't Chelsea get knocked out of the UCL last night? I sure trolled them good
.... . Oh wait.... I didn't

What I did was not express intent to troll. It was justifying my original actions of expressing factual and opinion based matter in a post that was not worded to offend anyone. People choose to take offense to that, and that's not my fault. I can choose to take offense to a lot of the stuff you're saying right now, does that mean you're trolling? No, it doesn't. So where do you draw the line? Probably somewhere between all the moderators of this site, and the users who support teams you don't fancy or those who dislike the teams you support. That doesn't seem fair to me at all. What about all those Chelsea fans who came to the Bayern forums after the final in May? They were doing just as I was doing, but with no punishment whatsoever. They were stating facts as well as opinion, and yet nothing happened to them.... Interesting

Also, it isn't "three mods against you".

There are about 7 of us that are active, and we happen to be fans of Arsenal, Spurs, Real, Barca, Chelsea, West Brom, and the list goes on.

Again, to insult us and claim that we are biased and ganging up on you because of the team you follow or the league they play in is dishonest and fanciful.

And again, you are in serious trouble because you insist on justifing your actions.

I am at complete peace with how the mod community has responded to you. Here is a quick recap of all events to date:

1. You trolled the city page
2. You were told not to
3. You then justified what you did
4. This justification containded both elements of denying that you did anything wrong in the first place as well as elements of your intent to do it again should they deserve it
5. You posted that picture which is offensive. It just is. A 9 year old knows that they get in trouble for calling someone retarded.... How do you not?
6. Several users voiced their support of you telling of City
7. Several users questioned the actions of the mods (it is worth noting that almost all of them have now admitted that they don't even know what you said or any other detail of this. They just don't like City, so applaud you for making fun of them.
8. Several mods then began to literally spend hours making sure we were being fair and transparent. Any claim that we have it out for you is a grotesque augmentation of reality. Why would we spend SO long talking to you if we just wanted to scapegoat you? We are talking to you because we hoped we could resolve this quickly and we wanted to give you the respect of knowing exactly why we had an issue
9. You were placed on status after the entire mod community was able to talk together
10. I posted the formal notice of status
11. You've responded to my justifications with your own rebuttles.
12. I responded to your rebuttles, and quite frankly, it is clear that none of your rebuttles hold any water.
13. Here we are


14a. This is the step where you chill out and spend some time thinking about all this. You then get to come back and appeal your status. In this possible future you acknowledge where you were out of line and assure us it won't happen again. We then take you off status and move on with our lives

14b. This is the step where you continue to display your complete and utter lack of remorse. We ban you. The site loses a member who has been mostly positive, that sucks for the Bayern community. Don't chose this option, please. But if you do, we ban you, and I'll still sleep well at night.

You have no clue what you are talking about.

None. Whatsoever.

1. First of all, I wasn't a mod in May.
2. However, I was in the bayern forum reporting Chelsea users who were trolling. I hate when people with my team name by their name troll, because it gives me a bad name, and causes counter-trolls to come to my forum and disrupt that community.
3. Several chelsea users have been banned because of trolling. I've banned some, and I reported many many more (before I was made a mod) so that the mods would take notice.
4. You're comment about "sure trolled" Chelsea by saying that they got knocked out of the UCL is a Strawman (a known type of argument that is considered flawed in its very nature. It is when you say "here is an example of what my opponent believes and here is why it is wrong", but the example you use does nto accurately capture your opponent's argument). I said, " you could have gone on the City page and [trolled]" and I also said, "If you post something on their wall that pisses them off, it is trolling". Notice I said ON their WALL. If you post something that insults a team, on that team's wall.... IT IS trolling. By definition! If you had just wrote on the Bayern wall, we would not have this problem. You could have even said a lot worse, and we wouldn't have a problem. Also, if you would have just said, "oops, didn't mean to piss anyone off, sorry guys" we wouldn't have had a problem. But that isn't what happened, so now we have a problem.

Also, I apologize if anything I have said did offend you. I have tried to remain as objective, rational, clear, and respectful as possible.

All of which are considerations you've thus far failed to extend to me.... By the way

By the way, there are several Chelsea users who HATE me because of the fact that I was reporting other Chelsea users when they were out of line. So you might want to come up with a new angle besides the "KGB, you're biased!" approach

You're taking everything completely out of context

Yes, I posted on the City forums without the intent to spur an argument or post an inflammatory message. I was posting MY opinion about how it sucks they got bought and now have these high expectations. Said message was then promptly deleted, yet City users and even a mod barked back at me with the intent to counter-flame myself. At which point I responded in a final message addressing a few of the points that were brought up with both factual and opinion-based logic. At which point I was done with it all, yet the FT community and several moderators carried on with the argument that wasn't even an argument. I was absent for all of this, at which point I returned home, and saw what had happened. It greatly humored me, and I posted a picture NOT calling anyone retarded, saying that arguing on the internet is retarded (read: dumb, stupid, pointless), there are no winners. Sure, it had a picture of a kid with a disability, but that was just to emphasize the point. It's unfortunate that in today's society words like 'retarded' and 'gay' are used as adjectives in place of words synonymous to dumb, etc. But that's beside the point. Tell me this: had what I posted, the picture, just been text with no picture associated with it, would you be all up in arms about it still? I highly doubt that.

Another point that you keep bringing up, my post in my own team's forum that is, in your opinion, expressing my intent to troll in the future; it was posted in my own forum. Which you tell me I have 100% freedom to post whatever I fancy. So I did. I justified my alleged actions, yet you continue to hold that against me. Does me justifying it mean it's the correct action? No, but I'm going to stand by what I originally said in the City forum, something I wouldn't consider to be trolling. I only continued to use the words troll/trolling/trolled ironically at your accusation that what I had initially done was "trolling. "

What I posted on the City forums could even be construed as sympathy; sympathy for the long time City fans, the non-glory hunters/bandwagoners, the City faithful. In your views it may have been trolling, that's fine. It should have been left at that, not blown out of proportion like it has now (all through no fault of my own, mind you) yet here we are, arguing over two simple posts and a picture, which all together is about as big of a deal as someone looking at you funny. It's all in your head and how you interpret it, and I feel you're interpreting it totally wrong. You're seeing the negative side of it, the bad things, the ugly things, what have you. While in reality it's none of that.

You're accusing me of not being respectful, rational, and clear to you. I beg to differ. I'm writing out well-thought out replies with valid points that you're dismissing with the same reasoning over and over which I don't completely understand. If I didn't have respect for you, I would be cursing left and right in these.... Essays (?) yet I haven't done that, not even once. I've been quite clear and rational in my debates, as well. The fact that you're accusing me of not offering you respect? That in itself is disrespectful, if I do say so

Disregard the "all through no fault of my own, mind you" part of the third paragraph, as obviously this continued debate is my fault, though not the initial stages. You can even see how I abstained from the earlier arguments on my wall

I categorically reject the claim that you were sympathizing with anyone. The simple fact that so many people reacted against you is proof that what you said was not viewed as a nice thing.

Again, you have committed a Strawman. I said you could laugh at City's misfortune all you wanted to on your forum, I never said you could say anything you want.

I appreciate you keeping things civil, thank you. And you are right, you've been largely respectful, though there has been some sarcastic remarks, and those are what prompted me to say you haven't returned the same consideration to me. But I agree with you, I apologize for being dramatic and claiming you haven't been respectful at all.

Let's cut the s**t now, shall we? We have both said our peace. Let me quickly summarize:

I don't belive you when you say it was a comment of sympathy. I don't believe you at all. The reason I don't belive you is because of all of your quotes I have already listed in the above comments. You take numerous shots at City and their fans. I don't see how you could have been genuinely consoling them one minute and then saying things like the following:

"supporters of other teams uniting together to laugh at and mock city for being such a joke of a team"

"But when these billionaire-funded teams like Chelsea and Man City and even PSG now get knocked out or lose, I will troll like there is tomorrow. "

"They have a false sense of pride that they should only acquire after years and decades of success, not overnight with the acquisition of another €50m player"

Those don't look like the opinions of someone who wanted to pat the City fans on the back. Not at all.

So am I reading something wrong? Help me understand.

Anyway, like I said, we've both said our fair share several times over. I'm moving on, and I will await your status appeal.

Oh, please stop editing comments on the Bayern page. You are on status to prevent you from posting anywhere but here and in the appeal page. Usually users on status can't edit, must be a weird tech thing that you can. But you aren't suppose to be able to, so please refrain

Everything has been said plenty of times, and the mods perspective is clear on this. However, one point can be mentioned again.

There is no personal vendetta against you or against Bayern Munich or the Bundesliga. You were initially approached by a Rangers fan(Greatcot - SPL), Spurs (Myself - BPL), Real Madrid(AFGMADRIDISTA-La liga) and Chelsea (kgb112 - BPL) in that order. We've had various discussions among mods that involve supporters of various clubs from various leagues, and on a personal note.... I've praised the Bundesliga and how it is organized several times over.

This is quite simply a scenario of us all saying you've broken some rules, looking for a bit of understanding/repentance from your end that you were in the wrong and that it won't happen again. However, this was met with derision and with an approach where you've staunchly defended yourself and tried to throw the blame back at us, and everything we've said has been met with a "but", or a point being diverted.... Finally arriving at you making it sound like a witch hunt. If we did want to do that, your account would have disappeared ages ago, and we'd have been spared hours off our lives by trying to be transparent and open with you.

To put things simply, you will remain on status till things turn otherwise. Nothing will move forward until there is a status appeal. The ball is now in your court, as only your actions here on will decide what will happen to your account on this site. This ends my comments on this page. Looking forward to a status appeal, if not, my regrets that a simpler solution hasn't been reached along with best wishes wherever you go.

Good day.
Maddy(Staff)

Going on vacation now, expect that appeal in a few days' time