Premiership

I would highly doubt us selling him to another club in England. If PSG is any bit interested, we're going to ship him off there... unless Moyes has a chat and decides not to sell him.

RVP to united
Rooney to Arsenal

It will be even.

^ rooney is english. he has to be worth at least 10m more :)

I find that English player nonsense so stupid. If anything he should be 10 million less because English players are overrated by the media.

@KingLucas Hmmm...the worst thing is that not only by the media. But by a lot of english people too.

^Not me mate, I'm English, but I know English players are way overrated. There are a few exceptions, but they're either about to retire or have already done so recently.

sure they can have him. they better empty out their bank account for him though.

one player who is over rated is cleverley... dont know any fans other than united fans who actually like him

^it seems someone wants to start war of word on the premier league forum with his intentional baiting comment.

@xgooner - I agree with Somere, it's obvious you want a flame war. Use facts pls

@Xgooner4everX

what do you expect? they are british and play for utd

Who's shallow enough to believe any of that garbage linking Rooney to us? We're about as likely to sign Rooney as Faroe Islands are to winning the world cup. Seriously, anybody who even remotely believed in that nonsense in the first place ought to be ashamed of themselves.

I mean the average quality of our signings will take a dramatic dip if we sign him, we have no interest whatsoever in him. Anybody who thinks he's a world class player should stop making judgements on players depending on their stats in FIFA.

what im voicing my opinion, i also players in the lower league clubs in england dont get a chance to play for england when they are doing better, for example how is ricky lambert not in the squad after being the top english scores in the PL. or players like leon osman who play 100% no matter who they play against, i dont want to start a war of words, but every1 knows england aint gonna win anything unless they shake up the aquad a bit

How did the conversation go from Rooney to Cleverley? xgooner4everx trying to create an arguement are you?

no it went from rooney to overrated then to me reffering to cleverley and walcott but u united fans love seeing that blind spot dont u

hmmm..i cant seem to find the part where you referenced walcott..i'm going to need some help finding that.

seems like there are a lot of sour fans out there today concerned with players on other teams, just because they are english internationals and play for united.

Keep it civil fellas or you know what will happen. This is beginning to look like an argument.

oh wait yeah i forgot to type that, but at least i think walcott is over rated, better players that suit to englands style

True, when they start throwing around the term "world-class" when describing players like Jenas, it really gets to me

Cleverley is a really good player. He never has a bad game when he plays for us in central midfield. He does struggle sometimes to control the midfield, but i think that will come with experience. He is still young and he is a smart football player. He reads the game very well and work hard in midfield. He is no Scholes but definitely not overrated.

heavens got a plan for you

^ quoting swedish house mafia?

DON'T YOU WORRY DON'T, YOU WORRY CHI- I mean....carry on.

Don't Worry, Be Happy

I am from US too, but lets face it the MLS is weak. That is why no one is there to talk about it. No offence btw that is just personal opinion. Anyways you should watch(u probs do already) Europe football and have a conversation here or on other pages.

@KingLucas, I disagree, MLS is gaining attraction yearly and they are a very young league that is growing with more fans, big names players and football specific stadiums. They are the fastest growing league today and are getting stronger. Loads of Europeans teams come to American and play MLS teams so they can gain valuable experience and they hold their annual All-Star game and just last summer they beat Chelsea 3-2. I live in Seattle and also support my hometown team Seattle Sounders and their not weak. The league itself has a long way to go but its most certainly not weak. Btw, were do you live in the US?

The atmosphere in some of those stadiums is amazing too, especially in the northwest, with Seattle and Portland.

Jimmy Greaves could bag some goals, I'll tell you that. I wouldn't be surprised if he's the highest, in fact, I'd bet he is.

Why don't you use google

jimmy greaves, 357 goals in 516 games.

^It creates a discussion, if you don't have any positive contribution, then you should just stay quiet.


Anywho, Arthur Rowley holds the record for the most goals scored in the old football league with 434 goals scored from 1957 to 1971.
I don't know whether his number of goals has been surpassed or not, but I know that statistic for a fact.

Interesting topic, thanks for bringing it up

Jimmy Greaves, I always wanted to ask if he is considered a legend of Chelsea or Tottenham. Those hardcore fans should know

I used google but it only gives u premier league. Let this be a lesson to you. Google doesn't solve all your problems in life.

^Not true mate, it's about the terms you input. I searched "English league all time topscorers" and this is the result:

http://www.free-elements.com/England/ts0.html

Derbomba, Maybe he found discrepancies between different sources and he was not sure. Why does this seem like an unhealthy discussion anyway?

^Nah, I wasn't attacking him, I was just defending google. It's the best thing that has happened in my life. :P

Good find DerBomba. Dixie Dean, there's another good one for you.

according to my google powers it was Arthur Rowley also known as "The Gunner" for most career league goals and Jimmy Greaves for top fight goals

List of only goals in first level of championship (First Division then Premiership) are considered.

player-----------------games----goals

Jimmy Greaves----------516----357
Steve Bloomer-----------536----317
Dixie Dean----------------362----310
Gordon Hodgson-------456----287
Alan Shearer------------559----283
Charlie Buchan----------482----257
Nat Lofthouse-----------452----255
Joe Bradford-------------410----248
Hughie Gallacher-------355----246
Joe Smith-----------------410----243

wow look at dixie dean's ratio :O

So this isn't just the top flight. I wonder if google can answer the top flight only. Championship is too easy compared to top flight. I am sorry if I didn't make it clear on the post, but I was asking for the highest scorer in the top flight only.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Greaves

That is from the power of Google my friend.

And Teja mate, its not a discussion, its facts. Saying who the best striker in English football history and thats a different topic (due to injuries holding back greatness, playing for a poor club etc).. That is a discussion

Let this be a lesson for you Kinglucas. Google solves all problems in life

Actually that is Wikipedia ;). I edited it a few minutes ago.

Haha how did I know someone was gonna say that.

Dixie Dean holds the record for most league goals scored in a single season (top flight) and I think the BearWithFish post is only top flight as Dixie Deans league record of both first and second division is higher than that standing at 349, scoring 39 goals in the only time he was in the second division.

60 goals in the league in 1927/28 season.

Goerge Camwell of Middlesbrough had the record of 59 the previous season. With two games left he needed 7 goals to break the record, the first four came against Burnley. Last game of the season was against Arsenal Everton had already won the league that year, and he scored a hat-trick in a 3-3 draw at Goodison.

(sorry for going on a bit and a bit off topic)

Thanx TWSK. Now I know. Btw how did u find it?

A mixture of the Everton website, and other sites found through google, and wikipedia.

Hardly the best at all... The keeper was trying his best to save it and a defender tried tackling him.

And Man City bought Jesus
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmnSR0LwiS8
and Roman decides not to sack any more mangers

lol he is gone guide them to 10th.

You just said fast and furious and amazing in the same sentence. I don't even.

It has turned into total s**t, it's more than a fiction now

I like them but I wish more of them were like Tokyo drift.. more about the race and the car instead of some wacky storyline.

Thought it was alrite, some unreal moments like vin jumping on that motorway bridge and catching the girl and making it to the other side, as well as a tank that can keep up with sports cars...yea, well at least jason stratham is in the next one. Not hopin for much, but should be interestin

here is best to worst in order imo.

1.Tokyo Drift
2.Fast 4.
3.Fast 1.
4.Fast 5.
5. 2 Fast 2 Furious.

2 is last because Vin Disel wasn't in it.

huh... i thought majority didnt like tokyo drift. thats why they're doing every before that one

Tokyo Drift was horrible.

I loved 5 and 6. I thought they were amazeballs as action movies!

@Naota. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1596343/

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1905041/

+7.0 on imdb is very good for an action movie.

Tokyo drift was amazing. sick cars. sick drifts,sick story, hottest girls.

well it depend on our preferences it seems

i think that Tokyo Drift = suck ass while Fast Five = the best among all the series

All of them are meh movies to me.

Ayyam: I'm a film major and I can tell you there are so many things wrong with those movies. Acting, editing, etc..

And if you look at Transformers they even get 7.0's. And that's directed by the worst Director in hollywood.

^ whats your opinion on the last airbender actors? if you seen it

@NAOTA - the point of F&F is not fit an intricately well made film. It's about testosterone filled action film that you get a dude boner watching.

P.S that's not saying I don't enjoy we'll made films, but films like F&F have purpose and shouldn't be put on the same scale if bring compared to an actual brilliant Nolan film.

That said, Bay is an idiot ;-)

@BWF - The less said the better.

Are you proud of Arsenal's achiles heel; not holding onto their best players? Just imagine your current team if fabregas, nasri and RVP had stayed...

I don't think it'd be too different to be honest, we're a team. Not a bunch of kids relying on one or two people to carry the squad. Nasri surely wouldn't make much of a difference, I mean we went from him to Santi Cazorla which is a huge jump in the right direction. Aside from Fabregas, RVP and maybe Song I can't think of anybody else we lost that would make the squad any better than it currently is.

Groundup's remark is to indicate how good we are at business.

Thats the main aim of your board, what else by making profit by selling all your best players.

Actually, if Arsenal can keep qualifying for the CL every season, while selling their best players initially, the stadium debt could be wiped clean pretty quickly. Once that is done, Arsenal might actually have the finances to dwarf City's, PSG's, Chelsea's, Madrid's and Monaco's spending. Not to mention that unlike all the other teams, Arsenal would be free to splash huge sums due to the FFP.

no no no derbomba your not allowed to talk sense on this board it is outlawed and looking towards the future nope we can not have that only thing that matter is here and now which means yell at our business model and because it sucks

Arsenal won nothing. If I was an Arsenal fan I'd hate the board.

you just must despise the liverpool board :)

@derbomba, not sure about dwarfing it but it shouldn't be that far off. people don't realize how much a stadium costs. it's cost us nearly 500 mil so far, which is almost as much as abrahmovich invested into his purchases so far (in nearly what 10 years). While it's unclear whether roman will invest another 500 mil or will even be around in 5-10 years time we won't have to worry about a sugar daddy sticking around or in the mood to spend. we'll have all this extra revenue that amount sto nearly what roman invested so far. and that's no kitty play.

^There is something strange about Arsenal's transfer policy though. I think you guys cash in a little late at times. Like for example, Henry and Viera could have been sold for like £60 million in total, but at the end, the combined sales generated about £30 million or so. Same thing happened with RVP who could have been sold for £50 million instead of £30 million. Thing is, if those players weren't meant to be sold, then they should have remained at the club rather than being sold at a lower profit margin. Especially Henry who probably would never have left Arsenal if he had the choice.

Am not complaining or anything, am just a little puzzled as to the reason why the sales generated such a low profit margin.

How can we sell rvp at 50m when he was useless for 7 years and only had an year to prove himself to the world at which point he reached his last year of conctract?

Henry etc went for low money coz at that time the market was still sane and 'normal' prices were touted. Mind you both players where reaching the end of their peak years so I think we did good in that sense.

The fact that your net transfer profit doesn't justify a significant trophy return does not necessarily show how good you are with business, not in my opinion.

Yes it does Joeymac because we're talking about business (ie. financial) success and colossal profit, not trophy acquisition. I'm terrified about the spending power Arsenal are soon to have with the stadium debt almost gone, their puma deal and CL money and their massive matchday income.

joeymac, what team can win trophys when they are trying to pay off their multi million stadium off, and still try to compete with the top clubs in europe... if u were in our position, u lot would of bottled it years ago

@joeymac

Might wanna look at a business man aim coz that sentence was just lame. Paddy got it all covered in case u still didn't know.

Sorry, that sentence came off wrong. To clarify, the ultimate goal of a football club to be successful on the highest level possible. To me, that is the "business'' of football, and can be achieved on a financial aspect and footballing aspect at the same time- and must be. That's the difference in the word "business" to me.

that's funny, arsenal's stadium cost 500 mil? i thought it was more. united have been shouldering a 700ish million debt since 2005 (now down to 370), and look at the difference in both clubs' trophy hauls since then!

i think the truth is arsenal's marketing team have done a s**t job maximizing the revenue in the commercial sector from the arsenal brand, and are only now starting to make good decisions with regards to improving sponsorship revenue.

the good news for both clubs is their debt is falling really quickly (arsenal are basically safe now and nearly debt free), and their commercial side is getting stronger all the time. both teams seem to be poised to have much more purchase power in the market in coming years, and should be able to rival the city's and chelsea's of this world, if not outspend them, if this ffp business is to be believed. knowing wenger he'll still buy mainly kids, but at least he will be able to bid on whoever he wants and retain top players.

@Joeymac
Well let's put it in perspective. Madrid's, Chelsea's City's, and PSG's model is "immediate-gain" orientated. It emphasizes on immediate success. Arsenal's model is a "future-gain" model. Once the debt is wiped clean, the club becomes much stronger financially. Note that the FFP rules are coming into play, and once it does, Arsenal will be in a better position financially than City, Chelsea and Madrid. Right now, as long as they maintain the club's prestige by qualifying for the CL yearly, not to mention the cash from the CL, they will in time become a even more dangerous team in the transfer market than the current transfer market bullies like the teams I've mentioned. At that point, they will be able to form their own dream team Fifa like, whilst the immediate-gain orientated teams will no longer have the ability to continue down that path due to the FFP rules.

Let's not pretend money has no impact on the game. It does. Why else are all the top talents flocking to PSG when the French league isn't as challenging as the other leagues. There is therefore a direct co-relation, Arsenal's choice is a long term plan it seems, which is why Wenger hasn't openly complained about the lack of funds. A coach like Wenger who was able to push SAF till the end can never be so delusional that he would think he doesn't need to buy proven players. He buys only when necessary, but once the debt is clean, he could buy just about any player he wants.

@SoccerIsFootball
It's true that Utd are in a similar situation to Arsenal, and have generally followed the same path. Utd have not made any enormous purchases apart from RVP and De Gea. Everything has been cost effective. There is one big difference between the two teams. SAF. It's not to say Wenger is a bad manager, in fact, he's done a remarkable job with the finances available to him. But SAF is just special that way. I can see no other manager bringing the title or pushing City that far last season with the squad you have. Think about it, apart from RVP, who else could simply waltz into City's or Chelsea's first team?

Apart from SAF getting it absolutely spot on, I can think of no rational decision why Utd are able to stay at the top of the EPL.

wenger deserved some blame but it's hard to say how much of arsenal's current situation is down to his stubbornness vs the board's eagerness to cash in on the stars.

and yeah since 2005 our biggest purchase (also our record purchase) is berbatov for about 31 million from spurs. van persie initially cost us 22.5 million, and everyone else we've bought has been less than 20 million.

Come on Lkerun.. they win the Emirates Cup quite often.

Hahahah Levy mugged you off for 31 million!

arsenal need some suitable players to challenge for silverware thats all.

Berbatov was worth the money even wit Levy's ridiculously inflated price.
Its down to us changing our style of football by the time he came in so he never truly shone. But with 50+ goals for United we didn't get mugged by any means

^Berbatov was well worth the money. It was Saha who wasn't worth it for Utd. Saha should never have featured for a top 4 team imo. He was only good enough for the Europa league or the UEFA Cup as it was then called. I'm aware he scored a fair amount of goals for Utd, but he isn't good enough to wear a Utd shirt imo.

And some background info on Freiburg's season:

http://espnfc.com/columns/story/_/id/1451935/uli-hesse-freiburg-astonishing-rise

"In the past there were a lot of big players. But look at our players now," Dutt says. "You realise that an important thing for a football player is technique and then the height of the player, ordinarily, will be small. [Diego] Maradona, [Andrés] Iniesta, Xavi – all little players. In the defence we think we need big players. Mats Hummels is big but he is very good with the ball. In 1982 Mats Hummels wouldn't have played in defence, he would have played at No10. In the 1970s, [Franz] Beckenbauer was playing football and [Hans-Georg] Schwarzenbeck was running after the English players – if he got the ball he gave it to Beckenbauer and the job was done. But now Schwarzenbeck is Hummels, and Hummels plays like Beckenbauer and Schwarzenbeck"

lol, wow, very interesting.

"The money is a big part of the problem in England because clubs go out and buy finished players instead of waiting," Arnesen says. "Young players need to make mistakes to get better, but managers think they can't afford [for] that to happen. You see the squads, even in the smaller clubs, they get players from all over instead of bringing young players through."

Arnesen believes that the introduction of the "50% plus one" rule in 2001, which requires Bundesliga clubs to be owned by their members, has helped to promote homegrown talent. In the absence of foreign benefactors it makes financial sense, and also appeals to the supporters in control, to give young German players an opportunity.

"I think one thing is very important, coaches who are coaching for the national team of Germany, from upstairs to down, they are very respected and it's a good job to have. In England I am not so sure about that," Arnesen says. "I think there is a feeling that to work for a club is much higher than the FA but that's not the case in Germany."

everyone knows this, but what can be done? people overseas pay the big bucks to see the final product, but at the cost of young players coming through. to be a young english player playing in the prem, you either have to be a top talent, at a top club, or both. even at the reserve and academy level, clubs are buying up the young talents from across the globe.

Although this article is very valid and I agree with it 100%,
with teams like Bayern Munich buying out ALL the talent out of your rivals, Bundesliga will find it hard to dethrone EPL.

It's actually neither great nor worth reading. Their performance at Euro 2012 should be enough to rebut most of what was written.

Also, check out page 2 of the Serie A page where @Jujex lists the following quality "future stars" of Serie A (all under 23 years of age):

Juve -- Marrone,Pogba,Leali
Napoli -- Insigne
Milan -- De Sciglio,El Shaarawy,Cristante,Niang
Fiorentina -- Ljajic,Savic
Udinese -- Muriel,Vydra,Pereyra,Merkel
Lazio -- Onazi
Roma -- Lamela,Marquinho,Destro,Florenzi
Inter -- Juan,Kovacic
Parma -- Belfodil
Cagliari -- Ibarbo
Chievo -- Paloschi
Bologna -- Sorensen,Taider All Co-owned with Juve
Sampdoria -- Poli,Obiang,Icardi,Zaza
Atalanta -- Bonaventura,Gabbiadini(Co-owned Juve)
Torino -- Cerci,Ogbonna
Genoa -- Immobile(Co-owned Juve)
Palermo -- Ilicic,Dybala
Siena -- Emeghara
Pescara -- Perin,Quintero
Sassuolo -- Berardi,Boakye(Co-owned Juve)

Demise is not the right word here.We are the 4th league now I give you that but there is nothing suggesting we are going down.If anything the teams have learned their lessons and are investing more responsibly and building from youth setups.


The part about loyalty is not very accurate either.If anything Italians are some of the most loyal players out there.Mentioning Zlatan and Cassano as the examples of loyalty is rather poor.
In Balotelli's case he always wanted to play for Milan so nothing wrong with that.

The european history part was a good review.