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Hello from down below. The London bridge is definitely not falling down, You go London, I see you ✌😎👍
about time London clubs took over the Manchester clubs :)
especially all the talks were about Pep and Jose

Conte , Wenger Poch all deserves credit
So I've been combing through Arsenal and Liverpool forums and fans are still making excuses as to why their clubs can't or haven't won the league.

Mostly, They say - (Money) even though B. Rodgers spent more than enough in 3 years to be competitive.

Arsenal fans are going with UCL and money excuses. Even though club in the past have won it while going further than them.

From the Rodgers era at Liverpool, they've been just as competitive on the spending front as anyone and yet one guy said their club relies on teenagers. Who are these teenagers at Liverpool?

Agree with these excuses or NAH?

Haven't the likes of United, City, Leicester and even Madrid thought us all that money alone isn't a factor? and why didn't these clubs win when they also spent?
What a great weekend for Arsenal and Chelsea
Cheers to that man! This weekend however was so terrible for the referees. So many no calls, no advantage played when should have, offside goals, etc...I think the league as a whole - fans, players, clubs deserve fair decisions with more technology implementations. Goal line has been fantastic!
I think referreeing is at an all time low even for the EPL
They should at least look to recruit top European refs for the top tier, atm over half of them are a joke
With technology improving day by day...we are lucky to have excellent reply from all angles to analysis the referee decisions.

However human error has been part of the game since the beginning..People only started to complain because right now we have good replays from every angle to analysis sitting at home...Just like they introduced goal-line technology replays will be part of the game in near future. Until then we just have to accept that every club has had its share of luck with referee decisions and live with it.

Even now with all the technology and replays fans and managers always differ in der opinion about penalty & red card decisions lol!
+5
I think this really shows how far we've come at Tottenham. We even got a refereeing decision going our way!!
Why'd you guys send Mike Dean on loan to the Championship? We were willing buyers :(

Campaign for Tottenham
+3
All said and done - to believe that they can come back after being 2-0 down needs mental strength and belief like no other. Spurs have indeed come a long way

Btw - I am loving those Dele headers. The last one hurt a bit though lol
+1
I still remember when Bale left and they signed 6-7 new players and I was like " dafaq did they do?". I think only Lamela and Erikson still remain, not sure about the rest.

It really all came into place for them. The emergence of Dele Alli, a league one youngster, Harry Kane given a chance, signing Toby, Rose and Walker turning into world class players and bringing in a manager like Poch. You can throw Dier into that mix as well. They have a great foundation to build on for the future, for me the only team along with Liverpool that can really give Chelsea a run for their money. The only shame for them this season is Erik Lamela being out injured, his been top class for them.
+2
Liverpool can get back in it if they beat Chelsea, but they're a bit toothless without Mane, and their defense still has not been worked out. I think at this moment Spurs have the best shot, and maybe Arsenal too depending on how they handle themselves in Europe going forward.
That referee should be demoted to championship, just like Mike Dean was
+2
Should be demoted to none league -_-
+1
Yeah its unfortunate that players and managers get suspended all the time but referees are untouchable
+2
Bring in the Technology! Smh.
Totally agree, I hate this crap from the FA with ref's being untouchable. Sure I don't like seeing managers being unprofessional towards the referees; but they should be accountable for their actions.

Man City were robbed from all three points today; that was a stone wall penalty and a sending off but the referee waves it on and then Tottenham score within a minute or two?
+2
Wasn't there a docking system that one of you guys suggested a year or two ago? Make bad decisions, get judged, and you'll see yourself reffing lower league games. Similarly, do well in the games you ref and stay as a top choice ref.
Yeah i think thats a good idea...Mike Dean was demoted to ref a championship match for a reason, after he wrongfully sent off Feghouli...But i think a lot of these referees have been in the job for years and they are getting old, they should be replaced with younger ones...Ones that can run from one side of the field to the next in no time...Plus that push by Alli on Otamendi? had that been Fernandinho i bet that would have been a red card...plus its right in front of his face, instead he opted to give them both a yellow...i sometimes wonder what these refs smoke before a game, because even a teenager knows to call those fouls its not that difficult.

I think Alan Shearer said time and time again that refereeing standards must improve, i think they are getting worse lol
Add clattenburg to the list, premier league refs get away with murder and some fans think they favour United but they don't. United haven't been given so many stone wall penalties this season
Mike Dean was demoted for repeated mistakes that were too obvious; this ref made 1 (albeit big) error.. demoting him to the championship would be too harsh IMO. Add to that the fact that Sterling went down on a couple of occasions before for a non penalty, and you have some unavoidable bias against him. I think a docking system as Shaymoose suggests would work best.

Coming to Sterling, it was stupid of him to stay on his feet, but he had made up his mind to shoot and didn't have the presence of mind to go down.

The football higher ups have made it clear that diving is a yellow at worst. In other words, it is acceptable to dive in a football match, and simulation will result in a yellow. Until this changes, (if it changes) diving will always be a good option for a player.
Can't be calling Sterling stupid for diving. He wanted to shoot and I think nothing else came to his mind.

Either ways, think of it this way - if players start training themselves to dive (to get the right decision) then we are losing the essence of football itself.

The referees need to take up this burden and tighten up on some of these situations (or for god's sake make use of the video technology). I think that is the only answer. Rather stop the game for 2-6 extra times than tilt the result of a great game with a stupid call.
Maybe stupid is the wrong word, he just didn't have the presence of mind to go down.

There's no 'if' now, Tomato, players go down all the time and the higher ups are doing nothing about it. The essence of the sport is being lost a bit, definitely, but it's up to them to correct it and they are not. It's a yellow card offence.

Refs can't take up this as well. They are already abysmal in their decisions, this would simply give them more room to screw things up. Stopping the game is not a solution, it would disrupt the flow.

The easiest way to go about it in my opinion is hand lengthy bans to divers. If Suarez is banned for 10 games for a bite, which is obviously too harsh and doesn't really impact the game more than a foul (tho you can't go biting), diving which can change a match needs at least that much IMO.

I won't be surprised if in a few years FIFA [video game] introduces a dive option in the future, imagine that, as scary as it sounds.

Knowing the ones in power, nothing proper is going to happen. Enjoy it while it is still good and go play with your mates in the park, that's all we can do.
^There used to be a dive option, I think it was FIFA '98 on the N64.

I never really understood the point, you never got a free kick and you never got penalised for diving so it was a pointless feature of the game.
Walker said he was trying to put Sterling off (not foul him) and that's basically what he did. Nobody would have thought anything of it had it been in the middle of the pitch.
That's a pen and a red card imo.

But I'm biased so I say very well payed Kyle Walker.
+2
Yup most definitely a red and a penalty - poor officiating again today.
+1
Just playing devil's advocate for a moment, but what is the difference between that kind of push and the type of pushing and shoving that goes on in the box before set pieces? I mean a foul is a foul right so if you're going to say the referee should have given a penalty there (which I agree should have been a penalty) then all types of shoves should be given as fouls. Like for example in Liverpool's game Firmino pushes Olsson right before he heads the ball - that should have been a foul too right?

Also, Sterling was offside anyway when he was played through no one seems to mention that...
+1
^The difference is that Sterling was running at about 15-20mph. You can't keep your balance if someone even nudges you then. Unless your name is Messi.

Was Sterling actually offside though? Didn't see that live.
You're either allowed to touch, hold etc or you're not. 100%. At any time and any where on the pitch.
"Nobody would have thought anything of it had it been in the middle of the pitch."

"You're either allowed to touch, hold etc or you're not. 100%. At any time and any where on the pitch."

This conversation is definitely an "Ought-Is Problem"...

It "ought" to be that rules are objectively implemented regardless of such variables as: location of contact on pitch, were the players involved previously cautioned this game, was the contact during a set play or during live play, et cetera.

However, it is an "is" that refs have long accounted for these variables while making decisions; we consistently see "minor" fouls that take place in the box not given because it would lead to a penalty or even a sending off, increased contact being permitted during corner and set play routines, players already on a yellow not receiving another yellow even when their foul calls for it, et cetera.

I think following:
1. Walker's contact on Sterling certainly inhibited the latter
2. Walker's contact could in no way be considered "playing the ball"
3. Walker impeded on a clear scoring chance
4. This happened in the box
5. Should have been a foul and a penalty
6. Should have been a straight red for Walker

Now, was it a light foul? -Yes.

But, was it a foul and did it specifically impede on Sterling's scoring chance? -Also yes.

Penalty and a red.
Among all the latest debates in the past month or so I've come to a realization that separates our top 6 fan-clubs into 2 groups. In the last 10 years the only clubs to win the premiership have been Chelsea, United, and City (excluding the last year). Go back 20 years and you can add Arsenal to the group as well (last won in '03-'04). It's become apparent from the majority of the users on here that those top 3 teams that have won the title most recently continue to crave more silverware and have become dependent on that in terms of success. Meanwhile, Arsenal, Spurs, and Liverpool seem to be in their own group of measuring success as long as they play good football, go far in competitions, and show team togetherness, and youth promotion (maybe not Liverpool so much on the last one). It's just funny to see the debates where you have 1 group saying that winning is all that matters because that's what they're used to. Then we have the "almost" teams that seek out other parts of the sports to fulfill their own happiness. Let's just remember that success means different things to different people. So when we're on each other's forums, let's keep that into consideration when we are huffing and puffing about this and that about who's better, more successful, how much this club spends, etc...
+2
It's hard once you taste winning to not measure success in the same manner
+2
Agree with most of what you said Shaymoose,just curious with the Liverpool and there youth promotion statement. Are you referring to the PL specifically or?
I definitely see your point, but don't entirely agree that there are established "groups."

For instance, one reason (among many) that LvG was told to go was because his football was not up to scratch. It was slow and boring, even though he won us an FA Cup. Even with Mourinho, it has clearly been emphasized that he's expected to win all the while playing the "United way"--in other words, adapt his pragmatism to club standards.

In addition, there's still a big push at United for youth. Nowhere near on the scale of the setup through the 90s, but we still have that long streak of including a player from the youth setup in every matchday squad. Every club will take pride in one of "their own" coming through the ranks.

Similarly, I wouldn't peg Arsenal, Liverpool, and Spurs as being in the same group. All those 3 teams are still driven by the desire to win silver (among other things, of course), but they all 3 come from different places. Even United this season will determine success not by winning the title (though there are other trophies up for grabs). Talk to any City fan this season, and I'm sure they'll also talk about the desire to cement a footballing philosophy; Pep sure has. I just think these barometers for success are constantly changing.

So essentially I think that each individual club defines success in its own way. That said, I still think you're right that this should be acknowledged, +1 for the post
+1
I don't think it is as easy as that to peg different clubs into such defined brackets. It is important to understand what stage of development each club is at and that gives a lot of context and depth to how we measure success or progress.

Now I don't think there is any real football fan who does not value their team playing an attractive style - although yes certainly pragmatism at certain times does make sense. If I take Spurs for example growing up I've never really seen us compete for silverware at a high level or challenge for the title and now I've seen us do it for 2 consecutive seasons - I think us fans see things differently because all of our teams are at different levels of development. I don't think that necessarily means Spurs, Liverpool and Arsenal fans don't value winning and trophies as much as City, United and Chelsea fans I think it speaks more to how well our respective teams are doing now considering where we were maybe 10 years ago; and certainly I can say Spurs have come a long way so for me yes that is success but like I said it really depends from club to club - I think it is difficult to compare.
Of all mentioned in that group Spurs are the only one who stand out and whose achievement is more resounding. They did not need huge injection of cash to join the big boys club and did it while playing youth which is a slap in the face for their immediate neighbours that to any other member of the top 6.

We all enjoy and want to watch fluid entertaining footbal but if you ask a City fan now if he would like Pep to sacrifice more fluent play for compact defence I bet they wouldnt mind. It is good to have an identity but when you compete in elite sports you must be ready to adapt because top opponents will always find a way to nullify you.

I think for Chelsea, Spurs and Liverpool their method is working for them and are basically above expectations atm, United seem to be recovering but Arsenal and City are underperforming and certainly below expectations of their fans and pundits. The cliche yopu cannot keep doing the same thing all the time and expect different result comes to mind. This is not to say anyone is right or wrong but when results dont meet expectations, when input is below output, when the level of investment doesnt produce an equally proportionate profit then perhaps it is time to re-evalute and refocus so that one doesnt fall into the abyss of irrelevance. There are 4 spots with 6 teams competing there are abound to be 2 who miss out every season for the foreseeable future.
+3
Everyone including Sunderland fans crave for WIN!!!

United , City , Chelsea fans talk more about winning because winning is the only way to grow the club. i.e Get better sponsorship deals , Attract Top managers, Attract Top players , Attract more global Fan, Increase club revenue etc.

Although Liverpool have not won PL in many years. I have seen the desire in the fans and club to win a PL title for decades.Just like any Top club they have tried different managers different players and spend good amount of money hoping to build good squad and win PL.

Yes playing good football is a major need for fans, but der is nothing stopping any club from playing good football and winning the tile. People who come with excuse "We dont care about winning trophies. We care about good football and Philosophy to develop youth etc" need to stop fooling themselves because every club that won PL over last 20 years have done that and played good football to win PL titles.

United , City , Chelsea , Liverpool , Arsenal all have scored more are less same no. of goals every season over last decade. So, I really dont understand what is this good football blah blah bulls*t fans comeup with.

One simple example about why Winning is important - Chelsea , United and City Who have shared PL over last 12 years(Nike & Adidas) others?

Any stats that can prove teams who dint play best football in the league won the title?
'United , City , Chelsea , Liverpool , Arsenal all have scored more are less same no. of goals every season over last decade. So, I really dont understand what is this good football blah blah bulls*t fans comeup with.'

. Just look at Arsenal's 4-0 win last week and Spurs 4-0 one. You could tell the difference in quality of the performance with naked eye, which stats won't.

PS: Not trying to stir s**t about whats more important but simply pointing out that stats/scoreline can be misleading.
Suraj same way Arsenal 3-0 win against Chelsea, Chelsea 4-0 against united , Chelsea 5-0 against Everton...in all these games you can see the quality with naked eye.

which proves my points about every team playing good football over a season. Ofcourse der will be game which you will have to win 1-0 because the opponents are too stubborn to breakdown.

PL is won over 38 games and not 10-15 high scoring free flowing games against mid-table teams. Yes winning in style sounds cool...but nobody will win 38 games in style atleast not in competitive league like PL
I think ALL teams are playing equally great football this season.
Last season Leicester played the best
Season before it was Chelsea/Man City
And the season before was Liverpool/ man city
ScouserDan - Yeah, I'm referring specifically to first team youth promotion in the last decade or so. But currently it seems like you have a crop of good youngsters just coming through in the next year or so.
Bundesliga to debut video review for 2017-18 season

Good start...I hope PL will be next!
+1
When?
Next season Bundesliga to start the review and they might roll-out to other leagues after
Sorry, I misread your comment initially.

I've have been opposed to this since the beginning, but I can certainly see it benefiting the sport. Sides get so hard done by incorrect refereeing so much in this sport. I think the hard work and dedication these teams put out on the pitch deserves fair judgement free of bias or inability to make decisions correctly on a consistent basis.

If they can do it in a manner that doesn't prolong the game, turn into time-outs and such then I am eager to see it implemented into premier league and every other competition.
SkySports predictor has both the Manchester clubs missing out on Top 4 this season.

Based on form, fixtures and home advantage they predict the table to end:

Chelsea 82
Tottenham 76
Arsenal 74
Liverpool 71
Man Utd 69
Man City 68

On current form I would say that order looks very possible. Anyone disagree? What alternate orders do you predict?

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11096/10734321/premier-predictor-manchester-united-and-manchester-city-to-miss-out-on-champions-league
+3
Could easily see it

Edit: by that, I mean that I could easily see anything. This league is not predictable
+1
lol! so Chelsea can afford to drop 21 points(double of points dropped so far) in next 17 games and yet win the title?.
Also i dont think united and city will collect only 28 points out of remaining 17 games.
Anything is possible with my defence lol. We got Vardy having parties, Everton Massacrers, the list can still go on until the end, just have to watch and see how things turn out, maybe Jesus can save us, we have two so hopefully one can pull us through.
+2
Liverpool 85
Chelsea 80
Arsenal 71
Tottenham 70
Man City 67
Man utd 65
+1
how can you trust something that say's spurs will finish above arsenal
Tottenham 96
Chelsea 82
Liverpool 75
Man United 70
Arsenal 67
Man City 62
^^lol
This is when I realize that if City does not get 3rd place we are doomed. The fourth place remains static, solid and firm as a rock week in week out, no matter what happens around it. Pep has a harder job on his hands than he realizes.

Sorry guys for the constant 4th place jokes :P anything to up my spirits atm
+1
It's kinda ironic that the two managers that people consider best in the world are sitting 5th and 6th.
I think Mourinho is better placed because he is building up strength by strength. I personally feel Pep has more potential but currently his team is by far the lost one.

But to your point - yes - the Manchester teams should be up there, not battling it outside of the CL group. The EPL has come a long way
I think it's a bit tiresome that people joke about Arsenal finishing 4th. There is a difference between 4th and top 4.

For example, we finished 2nd and 3rd in the last 2 seasons and people still interchange that for a 4th placed finish to suit a joke that has been flogged to death.
+2
^ dont get too serious mate its about old habits and all.
I know, I'm just grumbling.

Back to the OP, I don't think City are doomed even if they finish outside top 4. The owners have clearly wanted to bring Pep in for a long time. Now they have got their man I expect they will back him in the transfer market and City can afford to drop out of the CL places.

Guardiola is a manager of such calibre that players will still want to sign for and play for him even if they are not competing in CL for one season, and City can afford to offer top wages. The same can be said of Utd.

Arsenal would be in more trouble than City if we were to fall out. Wenger is out of contract in the summer and, if we do not extend his contract, the calibre of any replacement combined with our reluctance to match top wages will have a bigger impact on who we can afford to sign and the general direction of the club.

Arsenal are in a very real danger of doing what Liverpool did under Rodgers - slipping out of Europe and struggling to attract first choice targets.

+1
United deserve to be 6th based on the wasted chances they've squandered this season. 7 draws this season so far and in most of those draws they had a chance to finish the game in the first half.
Lol Deffy sorry man I know the joke has been done to death. But every week I check the standings and guess what I see :P

There was some statistic somewhere about the % of weeks Arsenal have spent in that position and it was staggering. I can dig that out sometime.

All said and done, this does not mean I do not respect Arsenal, far from it. After all, Arsenal has had the natural respect of the entire footballing community for keeping its identity for so long without any external funding or help.
Oh must be so tough deffy...... people have been giving Chelsea a hard time for over spending for years even though CFC has been profitable and spending less than many club for years. Just roll with it. Many clubs wish they were always top 4 and you can laugh at them too
+1
Hands off 4th place, it's ours. Get your greasy mitts away from it Tomi.
Zilch, we already frustrated the bejeezus out of you by clinching it last year. We could pull of a blinder this year too. No matter how difficult it can be done hahah


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Top Goalscorers

 
Diego Costa
15
A. Sánchez
15
Z. Ibrahimović
14
H. Kane
13
J. Defoe
12
R. Lukaku
12
D. Alli
11
S. Agüero
11
E. Hazard
9
S. Mané
9

Seeing Red

Fernandinho
3 2
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2 2
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7 1
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6 1
W. Reid
6 1
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6 1
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5 1
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V. van Dijk
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P. Jagielka
4 1

Premier League Table

Form
PTS
GD
GA
GF
L
D
W
Pl
Pos
55
32
15
47
3
1
18
22
1
47
27
23
50
3
5
14
22
2
46
29
16
45
2
7
13
22
3
45
24
27
51
3
6
13
22
4
43
15
28
43
5
4
13
22
5
41
12
21
33
3
8
11
22
6
36
10
23
33
6
6
10
22
7
32
2
28
30
8
5
9
22
8
28
-6
34
28
8
7
7
22
9
28
-7
36
29
10
4
8
22
10
27
-4
26
22
9
6
7
22
11
26
-7
39
32
10
5
7
22
12
26
-9
33
24
12
2
8
22
13
24
-13
38
25
10
6
6
22
14
21
-13
37
24
11
6
5
22
15
20
-7
25
18
10
8
4
22
16
18
-25
51
26
14
3
5
22
17
16
-11
41
30
14
4
4
22
18
16
-27
47
20
14
4
4
22
19
15
-22
42
20
15
3
4
22
20
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