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Suarez Handball: Disgrace Or Genius
Golaire (Bayern München) 6 years ago
How about a new rule; if the player is standing on the goal line and stops the ball with his hand, a goal will automatically be awarded. Or a penalty kick without a keeper.
I think it would be fair
Ltm017 6 years ago
Yes then you will not have people like Suarez bragging about a handball. I find it more of a disgrace that people are calling him a hero for it. Just for the fact that even though these things happen it is still cheating and I am sure if it was their country they would not be calling Suarez a hero
CHELSEA61 ((Footytube Moderator)) 6 years ago
Many sports already award goals for infractions like this. I think awarding a penalty for a blatant hand ball that stops a sure goal shows us how obsolete the current rules are
Rob12 (Manchester United) 6 years ago
Yea I agree this would work alot better and would stop cheating, but then what if the ref can't see it and can't give the right call
Anfieldhero (Liverpool) 6 years ago
Suarez is definitely a hero for pushing out the ball at that time. Most of the players would have done the same at that moment. It was the last kick of the match and there is no other way to save Uruguay apart from that.
Am sure people all over the world would remember him for his SAVE than all the 3 goals he scored in the world cup. He might be suspended for the semi-finals but there would be no one who would be more gutted than him. He has single-handedly pulled them through to the semi-finals.

Fair play to him!
Reidscott (Fiorentina) 6 years ago
Can you imagine a PK without a Keeper.... Lol.... And he still misses it! Man that could end a career right there on the spot.... Lol...
Ant (Liverpool) 6 years ago
FIFA are considering banning him for the rest of the tournament, I heard
ManUK (Manchester United) 6 years ago
That's two matches ant lol
Ant (Liverpool) 6 years ago
Yeah, the two most important matches instead of just one of them
Premoli (Werder Bremen) 6 years ago
I would have done the same thing.  But I think he should be banned for more than one game.  
Northstream (Tottenham Hotspur) 6 years ago
I can't believe it's worth debating. On the goal line in the closing seconds of a WC QF, you'd do what you can to defend your goal, purposely or by reflex. He committed a foul, it was dealt with, the player was punished, the team was punished. It's all within the frame of the game. This is part of what makes football exciting. Handball, red card, penalty, miss - I love it!

What about this situation from a Manchester United game. Ole Gunnar Solskjær was hailed as a hero. Is it any different?

Adamaus (Manchester United) 6 years ago
What a legend!
Northstream (Tottenham Hotspur) 6 years ago
Let's also hear from the Suarez haters on this one.... !
Donnchadh (Liverpool) 6 years ago
Well to me that's a completely different situation, although I do see your point. People will do anything to help their team win, even if it's a dirty tackle or a handball off the line. I mean this is by no means a guaranteed goal, sure it is a breakaway, but it is not an open net. Because it was past the era of Schmeichel, and that being such a high level of football, you put money on the player to finish but far from a sure thing, like the situation with Suarez surely was.

Plus Ole chased the guy down, that was great speed, and really a pretty precise challenge. Sure he meant to take the guy out but, it was fairly clean for what it was, nothing super malicious. A late challenge to stop a breakaway is much different from punching the ball off the line. So I could see how you think they are somewhat comparable, but in my mind they are quite dissimilar, if not completely.

That being said, I agree with Wolfgang on this one, Ole is a legend. He is one of the few Manchester United players I have a lot of admiration for. I have a lot of respect for all the legends Bobby Charlton, Duncan Edwards, Ruud Van Nistelrooij, Peter Schmeichel. But aside from Georgie Best and King Eric, Ole Gunnar Solskjaer is probably the only United player I really admire and look to for inspiration
Northstream (Tottenham Hotspur) 6 years ago
Being a Norwegian myself, of course we all loved Solskjær as a player, but when people are talking about "cheating" the handballing simply can't be worse or more morally wrong than any other blatant foul during the game. That's just miseducation and unreasonable double standards...
Donnchadh (Liverpool) 6 years ago
To me it's not a double standard at all, the game is called "foot"ball, you can't use your hands that is the first thing you are taught. It is the ultimate sin to deliberately use your hands if your are not the goalie, it completely undermines the game. And to me it is the worst form of cheating. To me what Solskjaer did was not cheating, it was defence, dirty defence, but still a tackle is a tackle. Well worthy of a red card. If someone has rounded the goalie, I don't think it is bad sportsmanship to take out their legs from under them, as long as you are not trying to hurt them. You give away a penalty and take a red card, but you don't dive on the ball with your hands. To me using your hand is wholly different than making a dirty challenge to save a goal.

I know what you will say, well what about a handball that is not deliberate? For instance how Harry Kewell got sent off against Ghana? He was trying to block it with his chest, but blocked it with his arm. Is it is bad, well no because he didn't mean it. Still bad, because he used his hands, but not intentionally. So he got sent off for it, and that was the right decision. But he still has his dignity. What I have been saying this whole time is that Suarez should have at least tried to head it out. That is all. Try and be a sportsmen, because in the end it is a game, a man can lose a game. A country can lose a tournament. You take it with a grain of salt. But you don't cheat the game, that is unfair to the game and to yourself. Do you think people would have hated Suarez in Uruguay if he had just tried to head it out, and missed and the ball and they went out. Think they would have said, you should have used your hands? No, they would have excepted losing, and prepared for Brasil. But no they are still in it, unjustly.

Ghana has never won a World Cup. An African nation has never even been in a semifinal. Uruguay has won two world cups, 1930 and 1950. To me that is the tragedy. But nobody sees it, win at all costs you say? If you have no heart than ya, I am all for it
Northstream (Tottenham Hotspur) 6 years ago
No, a foul is a foul is a foul. It's part of the game and part of what makes football what it is!
(Interesting how Sepp Blatter has argued against video refereeing because he wants to keep football this way, keep it interesting, make people discuss matches and situations....)
If you read the LOTG (Laws of the Game) the two offences we're discussing here: "denying the opposing team a goal or an obvious goalscoring opportunity by deliberately handling the ball" and a so-called "professional foul" ie "denying an obvious goalscoring opportunity to an opponent moving towards the player’s goal by an offence punishable by a free kick or a penalty kick" are regarded as fouls on the same level.
How in the same sentence Solskjær can be hailed a legend while Suarez is loathed is beyond me, but ok, I can't argue the point any further or any clearer than this. (I used to be a referee and people didn't always agree with me then either....)
Kushdog21 (AC Milan) 6 years ago
He didn't cheat the game.... Everything went exactly according to the book (rules which both teams understood and exploit on a regular basis to win) and what happened was fair. Moreover the fact that Ghana has never won a world cup or the last African nation in this one is completely irrelevant. Rules don't have a sliding scale for a reason, this would introduce a whole new level of subjectivity on the referee's part into the game (which I honestly doubt would do anything but hurt it). It's not even what I would call cheating, since it was dealt with exactly in the scope of the game. Plus if it's important that some skill was involved with the play in question, Suarez managed to be in the center of the goal line (even though he's a forward) and successfully block one shot with his feet, and somehow make enough direct contact with the ball to direct the shot out. If it sounds ridiculous that I bring up how impressive his technique was then please about that before defending Gunnar by citing his "speed". Also honestly, tackles like that more often lead to career-ending injuries or even tournament/match-ending injuries than handballs do. So which really is worse?
Ltm017 6 years ago
I agree with Donnchadh. I don't understand why people don't see it. Yes fouls happen. Yes things like this happen. Yes it is apart of the game. BUT it is still cheating. I honestly believe there are a lot of hypocrites in this thread. It is horrible to see people who complained and said things about other players and teams about cheating is calling a man a hero and such because he used both his hands on the goal line. What I want to see is if this has happen to anyone and their team how a person would feel about it! Would they see the glory in it then! Yes Ghana should have converted their PK but that is not 100%. Yes Ghana should have played to get a goal in the 90 min plus but we see that it doesn't always happen does it! What I find really bad is people not calling him a cheat because he was red carded and sent off. NO cheating is still cheating I say again. Rules are still rules you can mange to call everyone else a cheat a diver and such but not him? This hypocrisy is disgraceful I think. What is worse Suarez himself his bragging about it. Do you know what I want to see. The day when anyone who is praising him for this.... When it happens to their team.

Every time something happened in a match people would go to their team forum and cry "cheat" but I find it very distasteful that Suarez is not branded such as everyone else but what he did was no different. He tried to get a deliberate advantage for his team. Which it worked just like people who dive in the box or anything of the sort
Rasblak (Liverpool) 6 years ago
The difference between Ole Gunnar's action and Suarez's, is that Ole Gunnar did not stop a goalbound ball in the last second with his hands. He challenged a _player_ and brought him down. The player could have anticipated this and still had a chance to dodge the tackle if he had the skills for it, or let him foul him if he thought that Ole's red card would be worth it for his team given that the keeper was still ahead of him.

@NorthStream you used to be a referee.... A foul is a foul is a foul? All fouls are equal?
And all the rules existed from ever since the game was created and have never needed to be improved on? Tackle from behind = straight-red, anyone?

My suggested improvement is that a foul like this warranted uruguay's goal being discounted and a penalty awarded. Then players are bound to get it: you do not use your hands on purpose under any circumstances. We've seen points deducted for supporters' unruly behaviour, only fair that a goal be discounted for unsportsmanlike behaviour
Kushdog21 (AC Milan) 6 years ago
One thing you're not recognizing is that fouls leading to potential injury have a more direct victim apart from the opposing team's chance at winning, unlike handballs.... For this reason they are in no way on the same level in my mind
Rasblak (Liverpool) 6 years ago
Look.... We are probably barely worthy of being called 'amateurs' but, dude, which professional player out there would need to purposely apply the kind of challenge that ends a guy's career or sends him to the hospital to bring him down? What are you talking about "victim"?
The challenger needs to come up to you to bring you down. You're a professional.... Dodge his tackle, or not.

You take a goalbound shot, the ball is away from your feet, the keeper is beaten, some lowly a&&hole who has no respect for the game decides to play goalie because the consequences wouldn't match up to the gravity of his offense anyway.... What can you do?
CHELSEA61 ((Footytube Moderator)) 6 years ago
Suarez has said to the press "The hand of god now belongs to me". FIFA will not pursue any further suspension on Suarez so I guess what he said was pretty much true. FIFA let Suarez play god.

Ltm017 6 years ago
Now that is a disgrace.... And it is a disgrace to all the people that glorify what he is doing. No one would like what happen to Ghana happen to their country whether or not they would have done what he had done.

If this is the case then every player might as well do the same thing and I bet many people will not feel so proud of him knowing their team might lose because of cheating. What is worse the way things are going who knows if the ref will catch it next time.... Then I want to hear people calling players hero's for cheating!

Cheating is still cheating. Whether you get caught or not does not take away from the fact that you cheat
Premoli (Werder Bremen) 6 years ago
"Cheating is still cheating. Whether you get caught or not does not take away from the fact that you cheat"

Wikipedia says:
In sport there in implicit agreement among participants that they will play by the rules and eschew unfair measures to win. Cheating occurs when actions are taken that violate the rules of competition in order to gain an advantage. These violations can take many forms including the taking of substances to improve performance (doping), using equipment that does not conform to the rules or illegally altering the condition of equipment during play, and deliberate foul play with the aim of avoiding sanction.

Suarez did nothing with the aim of avoiding sanction.
You should watch tennis if you can't stand it.
Fouls belong to the game as goals do.
Red cards as well
Ltm017 6 years ago
No what you are referring to is getting caught by the ref. IMO it is still cheating. I honestly have no problem with these things because I know they happen. This is the game like you wrote. My Problem begins when people start glorifying players for it. When it is not considered cheating when it is. When people decide they want to pick and choose what they believe cheating is when it suits them.... Because we all know no one would like it if this happen to their team. IMO Suarez cheated and got caught.... Did you even watch? He had to ask the ref if the red card was for him and from what you are saying that is cheating because he wanted to aovid getting red carded and caught.

Second "cheating occurs when actions are taken that violate the rules of the competition in order to gain and advantage" exactly the advantage that the goal did not go in and that in an intense moment a player would have to take a PK which in not 100% like that goal was going in. Which he did not play by the rules when using both his hands to keep it out.... Inside of his head or body! Also Uruguay goalkeeper was known for saving a few PK.... Not an advantage you say?

This is the game and I understand that but it does not justify a player bragging about it. It does not justify players cheating and people glorifying it. Because just like when they call divers cheat or when they call a team a cheat because the team got away with a foul or something of the sort not caught by the ref. It doesn't matter. If someone takes from you and you catch them it does not matter if you caught them or not they still cheated you.... And I bet if it was your team you would feel different. That is my point
Joeymac (Manchester United) 6 years ago
Yeah i'd say it is a bit of both. He took a risk, and it paid off. He became a genius in uruguay, a cheater in the rest of the world. But, it could have easily been reversed had gyan made the penalty. He did what most players would probably do for their team, and it happened to pay off for him.

Maybe in the future there can be a rule that awards a goal if there is a handball on the line
Rasblak (Liverpool) 6 years ago
I'm from the school of thought that when the ball has not crossed the line a goal hasn't happened.
I'm for really penalizing the team whose players resort to such 'underhanded' tactics by cancelling 1 of their goal(s), and awarding a penalty kick. The consequences would then indeed measure up to the gravity of the offense.

That's how little I think of a so-called sportsperson who doesn't play fair when he knows he has been defeated. A&&holes like Suarez would then think twice before resorting to the 'instinctive' shlt
Reidscott (Fiorentina) 6 years ago
Sheer Genius! What the heck was he supposed to do anyway? It would have been over.... DUH. Go for it and see what happens.... However it will sink his team because they need him on the pitch.... So he saved them for at least one more game.
If Para go through h will be a hero until the day he dies and they will erect statues in his honor all over the place!
Northstream (Tottenham Hotspur) 6 years ago
Uruguay, not Paraguay....
They'll struggle in the semi vs Netherlands. In addition to Suarez the defender Jorge Fucile is out because of two yellow cards. Nicolás Lodeiro is out with a broken foot after the QF and captain Diego Lugano is struggling with a knee injury. Central defender Diego Godin has been out with a thigh injury but might be ready for the semi.
Reidscott (Fiorentina) 6 years ago
Oops. Struggle? They are going to get killed.... A total blow out is coming...
CHELSEA61 ((Footytube Moderator)) 6 years ago
The Dutch are without De Jong and Van der Weil so both sides will be missing key players. I hope Lugano can play. He will leave a big hole in the middle. RVP will be licking his chops
Reidscott (Fiorentina) 6 years ago
Agree.... However the Orangies have alot more talent than Ura.... And they still have scorers.... Nah still see blow out by 53rd min.... One thing that has been happening in these last rounds.... Blow outs are starting to show up now.... And to some great teams too.... I think it will continue this week...
Northstream (Tottenham Hotspur) 6 years ago
I doubt it will be a thrashing. Maybe 2-1 or going to penalties, or you never know.... Uruguay might just do it! The longer Netherlands go without scoring, the greater is the chance that Uruguay will take it home (including if it goes to penalties)
Blueskiesahead (Chelsea) 6 years ago
If uruguay can make it to the world cup final, then he truly will be a hero, no doubt about it
VeljaSrbin (FK Partizan Beograd) 6 years ago
The only one to blame for arguing over this is Gyan! If he scored that PK, no one would even talk about Suarez and his handball!
As far as being disgraceful, Suarez just did what every footballer would do in his situation, no doubt about that! Even the people that are loud in criticising him, would do the same, if they were playing for their national team in a match like that! I'm not saying what he did was right, morally or whatever, but he is human, as we all are, and he did whatever he could for the thing that probably means most in the world to him! And I understand that!
Now I do not understand how he got only one match suspension, but that's FIFA for you I guess! As far as changing rules with goal line fouls, what if ball was going in the goal and someone used handball on the six yard box line, does not that deserve to be a goal as well?! Nothing is perfect in this world, so are not football rules, but for rules to be effective, they need to have as little loopholes as possible! Foul in the box equals PK just makes most sense, even though sometimes it does not feel enough...
ScooterHayes (Chelsea) 6 years ago
I would say that it's just instinctive; with that kind of pressure on and knowing what was at stake, I don't think he even thought about it. You can't premeditate that kind of foul. You can see the other guy on goal line tries to do the same thing. Either Uruguay talked about it before hand, or it was just instinctive in the situation.

I would feel for Ghana any other time, but their lack of maturity has shown since they broke out of the group stage; they've lacked class going into challenges far too aggressively, diving, simulation.... Whatever wrong Uruguay did, I think Ghana provoked it. So I don't feel sympathetic. It's better for the sport for Uruguay to be the success story here, anyway
Reidscott (Fiorentina) 6 years ago
Maybe.... Ghana would be a great story if they had made that pk.... I am not so sure about that scooter.... I get your point but with all the impact players missing in Ura's next match.... Prob gonna' be ugly.... 4-0.... Or worse. Ghana would have provided a lot more drama I feel
Kushdog21 (AC Milan) 6 years ago
Genius.... I'll say here what I have said elsewhere which I think is getting lost in this discussion.... There's no sliding scale of punishment/morality that adapts to extraneous circumstances and inflates the importance of one team above others in the application of punishment for infractions. Just because Ghana became the face of the host continent or captured the hearts of indifferent fans doesn't merit a stronger punishment or disdain against a player committing an infraction against them (which it obviously has since this is even a major issue at all). That being said everything happened in the confines of the rules which BOTH teams knew and ALL teams constantly exploit to achieve their advantage. And unlike many worse unpunished events which have transpired over and over again international and club play (simulating fouls to achieve penalties, handling the ball into or out of the net), Ghana got every consequent advantage and Uruguay got every consequent disadvantage as a result of the infraction. What happened thereafter was either bad luck or being outplayed on Ghana's part, but this is no more disgraceful after the fact (with whatever conclusion) than it is at the time. I think Suarez is a hero as I would Donovan or even Materazzi (who was just the first player that came to mind I feel no good towards) in the same situation, not a disgrace by any means.

As a response to rule changes, introducing a subjective "obvious goal awarding" system would only complicate the game more and place even more importance on the already poor refereeing as it would no doubt be extremely subjective. FIFA understands that strict rules will always lead to loopholes (as every sport has loopholes that teams exploit in less than moral ways) and therefore aren't to blame either for this (and neither is Suarez)
Tidesva (Barcelona) 6 years ago
Genius, anything to give your team a chance
Kiwoli (Inter Milan) 6 years ago
I don't understand why the majority thinks he is a genius? What does it say about this beautiful game when this can be tolerated to such a degree? Sure, he took one for the team. He wouldn't be asked to, but its what's expected of him. But to name him a hero is THE disgrace. It doesn't matter what Ghana did or didn't do in reaction to this, its true that this issue might have mattered less had Ghana gone through, but the reality is that they didn't - and it was directly because of what Suarez did.

And what's more digusting is that he only recieved a one match ban. He should not have had the privilage to play in this World Cup anymore, short of fixing the result of a match for personal gains, I can't think of another act of cheating that should be punished more severely
Kushdog21 (AC Milan) 6 years ago
Any sort of hard foul, or dangerous play on a player would require much harsher punishment.... This is far from the worst thing that can happen in football as most multi-match bans come from extremely dangerous, injury-prone fouls.... I still can't believe this is even being talked about in the same sentence as the worst thing to happen this world cup as there have been intentional harmful fouls (Melo) and acts of cheating not caught by the ref (Henry, Neuer)
Rasblak (Liverpool) 6 years ago
Hahaha. Where was the 'hand of god'-reloaded when they needed it on Cadera's header?

Sepp Blatter barely just shook the "genius's" hand in the introductory line-up. He didn't even look at his face and in no time turned his attention back to the captain. Fantastic goal by Forlan. Overall though, That's "F&ck you!" for you, "genius"!

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