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Tottenham's Strength In Depth
[account-removed] 4 years ago
This topic seems to come up quite often, and I think it'd be good to have a look at various options that we have available. Assuming we bring in a new striker, I called that guy "Striker" for sake of simplicity.

First team:

Bench: Friedel, Naughton, Caulker, Parker, Siggurdsson, Dempsey, Defoe

Reserve Team:

Third team with the possibility of Sandro, Dembele, Bale and Lennon injured, and considering Huddlestone and Livermore are both sold. AKA extreme crisis!

Midfield subs still available would be Carroll,Falque and the likes of Mason and Pritchard would be promoted to the bench. But frankly, what is the possibility of having our entire midfield out injured at once? we'd still have a cracking midfield, and only would have a problem finding good subs for our "Panic! Injury cirsis!" team.

This is the reason why I think our midfield is super strong with Holtby coming in, and why we don't need to dip into the midfield market again.
[account-removed] 4 years ago
This is to comply with Hatmundo's scenario of Bale, Dembele, Dempsey and Defoe all being injured/unavailable, and Huddlestone + Livermore + Jenas let go.

This is again a case of an unlikely midfield crisis, but I believe we can still compete with this squad.

Option 1:

Option 2:

I believe that holding onto Huddlestone will solve any problem whatsoever with any injuries we might have. But these scenarios are how I'd deal with the injury crisis mentioned in the premise.
Hatmundo (Tottenham Hotspur) 4 years ago
Thanks for doing that dude and for letting me know in the main forum. I think I find the 2nd line up more enticing as I don't have the same faith in Townsend that you do.... Yet. Once again though, just I don't have faith in the creativity of that midfield 3 in option 2. One more creative player would make a world of difference in getting the ball upfield quickly.

I accept that Thudd is a creative player who could help but I think a transfer is best for him personally as well as for the club. There are a few interested teams too so when all 3 parties want the transfer to go through.... Its pretty much inevitable. With Thudd replaced by a more flexible and mobile player, it could offers us better tactical options. Like you I'm off the opinion that Parker will play before Thudd in the pecking order.... No good player deserves to be going into his footballing prime as 5th choice. Please don't misunderstand Thudd is one of my true fav players. I just want to see him do well!

A young dynamic box to box style player that is closer to Dembele than Parker would be perfect. It would make option 2 very viable against most Premier League teams imo. Along the same lines though, if we signed a pacy young wide forward to replace Townsend.... It would make Option 1 look very interesting indeed.

Option1: I would also be more inclined to start Carroll before Townsend with Holtby once again going wide but I like that we have a few options. Even saying that I don't think Carroll or Townsend have enough experience to start in the league yet. I believe both need to go out on loan to a struggling premier league team and prove they are better than that level.

I can't even remember the last time Spurs brought a youngster through (besides Bale) that didn't go out on loan to premier league team first to prove them self. I think it was King. I know Townsend has been on loan before.... But not to a Premier League team. Its called the 'Bostock Clause' Going on loan is deemed as a failure unless you dominate while on loan. If you go to many lower league loans and never play at the top level you will never play for Spurs. Players like Falque and Livermoore didn't cut it so will probably get one more chance then sold

On the other hand players that had proved themselves at a premier league loan and gained first team spots the next season are Caulker, Walker, Naughton, Kaboul (sale) and Rose could be a chance. A loan to prove yourself is a write of passage as a young player with potential, unless you are a Bale, Owen or a Giggs. Only the freaks that can walk into any starting line up, are immune from earning their spot via loan. Walker was an interesting case too.... He was doing so well on loan at a championship club that they recalled him and sent him on loan to a premier league club to see if he actually cut it there as well.

Someone like Carroll needs to learn how to dictate a midfield and that only happens through hours of time with the ball at his feet during a real game. Townsend is a young winger who we will just have to disagree on. He has been on loan 5 times already and obviously prefers to get game time over sitting on the bench but until he is loaned to a Premier League club it means nothing. (Bostock Rule.)

So this whole tangent about loans and stuff was to say that I'm positive both Carroll and Townsend will go out on loan next year meaning the will be a gap in both those teams. (Option 1 and Option 2). Both gaps could and probably should be filled by.... Just one more young pacy creative player who can play either centrally or wide. The fact that we have the flexible Holtby means we can cover either position but someone who could play both (like Holtby) would even better. I think that made sense.

So here is the list.... Young, creative, pacy, flexible and some midfield goals would brilliant.

So Behind door number 1 we have.... Younes Belhanda. For ten million pounds you can have this bright young French starlet. He plays for Morocco but developed from France's tremendous youth system. He can play deep or off the striker while central but at no extra cost he is very capable while wide left. He brings goals and is known to bring the ball up from deep in the style of Dembele. Whats even better is that he is only 22 years old so his sell on value is immense.

Regardless of if Younes is your cup of tea or not.... What I'm thinking is if we can sell Thudd for around 8 mil and buy a (Belhanda style) player for about 10 mil.... Well I actually think we have a squad that could challenge anybody. All that is assuming we sign a striker as well.

I went on a big tangent about loans there but I'm interested to read what you think. Once again thanks for responding to my conundrum.
[account-removed] 4 years ago
I understand where you are coming from with Thudd becoming 5th choice and how no one deserves to be that 5th choice, but if you replace thudd with someone else, wouldn't we relegating someone else to that 5th choice position anyway? Would any new player come in and be happy on the bench? Holtby, I really rate very very highly, and I think he'll slot right into the first team. He's already a champions league level player, and he's coming into the squad at the expense of relegating both Dempsey and Sigurdsson.

So a new signing would really complicate things further, about who should play and who shouldn't. Hudds knows he needs to fight hard to upstage anyone, but he also will know Parker will be at his best for just another year, and might be willing to bide his time in the meantime. That said, I like Younes Belhanda, and I think he'll be a good player if we do get him. I just don't see the space and feel it might be a bit of an unwanted problem for AVB to manage. Time will tell

About the young wide player on the left wing, Holtby is extremely proficient at LW He's played an entire season there, and has raked up 11 Assists, I believe, that season with Mainz. Dempsey is second choice, Holtby is third, and Townsend is 4th choice LM and 3rd choice RM in my test scenario. Can we honestly find a better player so low down the pecking order? Not so sure.

With regards to the loans of Carroll and Townsend, I believe the reason we haven't seen that, is because they are 3rd/4th choice players in their positions, as well as playing with the U21 league. I think that's where we'll see them both next season, with the competition gaining momentum and importance. I'd love to see them both do well here, and in cup games. With our facilities and our staff, they can improve better here than they can with a loan sprint. Just an opinion though

But I get where you're headed with your argument as well, and I can see the benefits and the drawbacks of both opinions. Both the loans, the purchases and the egos.... Its difficult to weigh them all up and down. I guess that's why we're writing on a football board, and AVB's paid millions. For all our sakes, I hope he manages to pull things through

By the way, another point of considerations for us both.

Bale is sold next season. Holtby is brought in not as a CAM, but a LW player. Belhanda is brought in as a CAM/Wing player instead. Might be the answer to both riddles? The remaining money goes to the strikers we so desperately need to replace soon! Adebayor and defoe are not getting any younger, and neither is Dempsey. I see them all staying for one season more and then we bid our farewells to all three. That'd need a significant investment to replace 3 players, or atleast 2 of them.

Thoughts? And cheers for the other perspective. Again, I'm not against yours. We're just highlighting two different possible paths the club could now take
Hatmundo (Tottenham Hotspur) 4 years ago
I'm just gonna' pretend the idea of Bale leaving doesn't exist.... It makes it easier for me to sleep at night. Re: the 5th choice thing.... It's fine for a young player coming up or a player near the end of their career. It's just 26-29 is when players expect to be playing their best football (theoretically) not just keeping a bench warm and taking a paycheck.... Well maybe its a little bit that I just like Thudd so much and think he is wasted in this system. Mag I wanna ask if you were AVB would you deny Thudd a transfer if he wanted to leave so as to have a 5th choice? I personally would feel terrible doing that to him.

The person I see losing minutes is Parker. He will be in the last year of his contract and AVB will be phasing him out completely by seasons end. It also works out perfectly for Carroll to come back after the loan and take his squad place. Having Parker around as 5th choice is fine because he is the model professional and just having him at training helps the youngsters. Think about how Man City paid Viera to just come to training and play like 2 games for the season. They loved him for it and gave him a job after it too. No one thought it was a waste. Also Parker is won't complain, he knows to just do his best when he called apon. Something not all players can do quietly.

I totally agree on the idea of Hotby playing wide left like he did in Mainz and am eager to see how AVB utilizes him. I can see him playing a lot of games in the number 10 position. From what I've read he played a season as a deep playmaker but he had a bit of trouble adapting to it. I've never heard of him described as a box to box player.... He could well be fine to play that role but from what I understand its not what he is all about. Its also not really a role Carroll, Parker, or Thudds can play. My other big fear is that if Dembele goes down then we have to change our style of play all over again.... Just like when we replace him with Thudd. Hopefully Holtby can do it but if he can't, I don't see anyone that can replace Dembele without major changes in our build up play. Probably being a bit too pessimistic.... But you know what that's like mate.

If AVB decides to give Carroll and Townsend more game time next season I certainly won't be complaining. I do have lots of faith in AVB's ability to use a squad wisely so if we keep clear of injuries those two won't need to play any big games. I only worry if we do get those injuries during a crowded fixture list when first team starters are rested for champs league.

Maybe I should have said Dembele is injured and Holtby is struggling to adapt cos that has a very real chance of happening....

Good talk buddy. I'm off to bed.
[account-removed] 4 years ago
But that solves the entire issue. Parker can slot in behind Huddlestone in the pecking order, and we won't have an issue in the first place. Or we can keep Parker to back Sandro up, Huddlestone to back Dembele up. Carroll would be 5th choice We're getting the numbers mixed up here hat.

The thing we're in danger of doing, is trying to fit in a formation, and not adapt if a player is injured. If we bring in Belhanda, will he play the Dembele role? He's a totally different player as well. The same with Thudd. We've got different players, and if one's missing, we alter our formation and our tactics slightly to suit the players. That's why AVB's here. Its not like when we were under Redknapp, and when we lost one player to injury, we completely were running around like lost chickens tactically. Bale injury kept modric out wide, and we didn't understand where to play the ball to. This is something which I believe AVB can help avoid. Dembele is unique, and I feel we'll be a much better team if we didn't try to replace him, but tried to work around him not being there due to an injury.

I understand your concerns, but I think we're trying too hard to think of a reason why Huddlestone should go and why another player should come in. I think at the end of the day, it boils down to you maybe not seeing a place for Huddlestone in the tactical lineup, and me believing that he does still have a role. What'll happen, is anyone's guess

I agree that Parker will be phased out slowly. And Holtby, I'm not sure if you've seen the videos I've posted of him showing a very physical side to things.... And you know his parentage, and how he's always wanted to play here. You were right about his transfer. Have a bit of faith bud In our latest transfer, and our youth. They'll deliver.

Anyway, nice chat bud. Laters

Hatmundo (Tottenham Hotspur) 4 years ago
I actually think Belhanda would be perfect as back up for Dembele, Holtby and even Bale. Remeber he started out as a defensive midfielder but his runs from deep were so effective that he got moved into an advanced position. Seems like a great replacement for Dembele in my eyes. I guess it all comes down to if Thudd is sold. I think he will be sold so can we agree that we need a replacement if he does move on?
[account-removed] 4 years ago
As long as the player is happy to understand that he'd be behind the pecking order for Dembele and Holtby (I rate holtby more than Belhanda), I guess its acceptable. I would certainly feel for Siggs if it did happen though. He'd be pushed way back down the order
Jsfplaya (Tottenham Hotspur) 4 years ago
I think both of your thoughts on the topic was a great read, and I wanted to give my 2 cents as well on the matter.

The way I see our midfield is similar to Hatmundo views.

DM - Sandro/Parker
B2b - Dembele/Hudd
AM - Holtby/Sigg/Dempsey

Now what Hatmundo is saying, Hudd doesn't necessarily fit the role he would be needed for and isn't nearly as versatile of a player as Dembele. Let's be honest, he is huge and slow. Dembele is pretty athletic, quick, and moves the ball via passing and just running straight down the field dribbling (amazing to watch). The notion of possibly being able to sell Hudd to Stoke for 8 mill, and bringing in a younger, quicker, more versatile player in Belhanda, for only 10 mill is mind blowing. It would literally take me 1 minute to go through with that decision. Belhanda added into this group of midfielders would be too perfect. With the amount of games that we could potentially see next year, assuming Champs League qualification and going deep into Cup tournaments, Belhanda and Dembele would be a great 1-2 punch at the Box-2-Box midfield position.

The best thing about having both Dembele and Belhanda would be the fact that could easily slide into almost any position in the midfield. If Dempsey or Sigg or Bale went down or got suspended, you can slide any one of our AM into lm/lw (Dempsey, Sigg, Holtby) and then move Dembele or Belhanda into AM instead of the further back B2B midfielder.

As much as everyone seems to love Hudd, and want him to be succcesful, I think it is clear that his better days with Spurs have passed. If I was AVB or any coach, moving him to a team that better suits him would be great for all parties. In my opinion, if we want to see Hudd achieve his best, he needs to be sold off.

Sorry for any grammar mistakes, my first Spurs essay.... Lol
Hatmundo (Tottenham Hotspur) 4 years ago
Jsfplaya. Thanks for your 2 cents dude. Don't worry about grammar.... I tend to do my (....) instead of punctuation anyway. I'll glad that you see where I'm coming from. It seems now that Belhanda may not be coming but there are plenty of other players around who fit the bill.

There is a player called Moussa Sissoko who has 6 month left on his contract in France so can come to us for free next season like Holtby. He is a fantastic exponent of the box to box style player who is also very comfortable playing on the wing. I know Levy has been in contact with his agent so we are a chance. I wouldn't hold my breathe though cos Juve is where I think he will end up. He has also said publicly that he wouldn't mind playing in Russia.... So will have big wages on offer.

Despite both Belhanda and Sissoko being unlikely.... The fact that Levy is interested in that style of player means we still might see Thudd being replaced either this or next transfer window.

I'm a big fan of essays mate as I think they convey more information so please feel free to type more of em. Take care buddy
[account-removed] 4 years ago
Welcome to the land of Essays, Only a matter of time the bug takes over everyone! Lol. I can't truly add anything but paraphrase what Hatmundo has said.

Don't worry about grammatical errors. What matters is what's being said. Looking forward to seeing more of these as time goes on!

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