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The Great Tevez Debate
Mcgratma (Manchester United) 4 years ago
Ahead of tonight's eagerly anticipated Manchester Derby in the Carling Cup, all eyes will inevitably be focused on one man - Carlos Tevez.

Never being one to shy away from a war of words with his old club, Tevez expressed his desire to exact revenge upon Manchester United over their controversial victory in Old Trafford earlier this season.

However, this seems to be another regurgitation of the same old story. What it really boils down to is whether or not Carlos Tevez is actually that good? Is he overpriced? Or do Manchester United really miss him?

Before I continue, however, I must stress that this is not a Tevez v Berbatov Debate, or a Manchester United v City one either. It is an open discussion for all supporters, of all clubs, to join in and give their honest opinion on Tevez's ability as a player. I very much look forward to reading what you all have to say and, hopefully, we can come to some sort of conclusion in the end. Who knows, maybe after tonight's game, Tevez may be able to change the thoughts of many of you?

For me, to be honest, I never truly rated him as a Manchester United player. At West Ham I, like many other fans of the game, was quite impressed with what he had to offer and was extremely happy when it was announced that he was signing for United. Although his monumental work rate won me over at first, it soon became clear to me that he was not what I, as a fan, was looking for. Were it merely a question of work-rate and application Tevez might still be in favour at Old Trafford.

He never let anyone down at United in this regard and Sir Alex Ferguson repeatedly praised his energetic contributions, yet the manager understandably found it difficult to find him a regular starting berth and decided, or at least did not come to sufficiently decisive a conclusion to convince Tevez that he meant it, that £25m was a lot to ask for a striker whose misses were as notable as his goals. The main reason for this is the fact that United already had Wayne Rooney, who covers much of the same ground as Tevez, and also prefers to play just behind a more advanced striker. For this reason Fergie decided to stake everything on a partnership developing between Rooney and Dimitar Berbatov (with the merits of this decision another debate entirely).

Secondly, for all that Tevez has, Rooney has more. Along with an epic work rate, Wayne possesses the football brain to make lightning quick decisions, and uses his skills, speed, and wide array of passing to make sure that United forward momentum does not slow in any situation. Tevez on the other hand, and I swear I nearly pulled my on eyes out with the frequency that he did this, whenever and wherever he received the ball, always controlled it, and turns his back to the defenders and/or runs down a blind alley! It would drive me nuts! I concede that holding the ball up is of course an essential element to the game of football but not every time surely? He had his moments, but moments just do not cut it for Manchester United. We all know this.

Do United miss him?
Yes and No. Tevez will always be a decent asset to have coming off the bench to secure a victory with the work he does closing down the opponent. His energy at the end of a long match was also sometimes too much for tired defences to handle and could come on to chip in with a vital late goal. He also represents a decent stand-in for Wayne Rooney against the 'smaller' clubs, when Fergie wants to give Wayne a breather. But, nothing more.

United, without playing particularly well this season, are still only 2 points behind the mighty Chelsea, although Chelsea have a game in-hand. I do not think that with Tevez, United would be in any better a position, and playing in anyway better than they have been to date. Their deficiencies have been in Midfield and Defence, some to be remedied with returns from injuries, others with the purchase of new players. This leads me to my final question....

Was Carlos Tevez over-priced?
100% Yes. Irrespective of monies spent on other players, United were for once wise to the fact they should not overspend on a bit part player that they didn't really need. As we all know they do not have the bottomless purse we United fans all believed/wished they had. Indeed, it will be interesting to see how tonight's game plays out, and which side of this debate may be (albeit tentatively) vindicated on the performance of Carlos Tevez.

This Blog entry was contributed by a footytube member and does not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of footytube and its partners
BELIEVE (Arsenal) 4 years ago
Tevez is a world class striker and he is getting better and better in the English game. UTD didn't give him the time nor the belief. Tevez is a very hungry player and as anyone can see, he is worth the money. With a good track record of being fit, scoring goals and a never give up attitude, Tevez is going to improve more and more as the season goes on. When Adebayor returns, I think the disrespectful Togo international, will find his spot has been filled and he can flip off to wherever he wants to go. And todays match has given Tevez a taste of sweet revenge.... Now if Man City is to dip in the top three, and replace UTD, well then I'd say justice has been served.

P. S
Well written post, hermano
Donnchadh (Liverpool) 4 years ago
Is he really your brother or were you saying that figuratively just wondering haha it is a good post, by both of you. I would agree with Believe, Tevez is great. When he played for United he was the only player I had any respect for, at least a lot of respect for. Giggs and Paulie Scholes, I have a little respect for because they've been playing there before I was born, or at least since I was a little tike
Realmanchester (Manchester United) 4 years ago
Well tevez is a great player in my opinion, he always chases the ball, and tries to help out at any moment he is given, the fact that united chose berba over tevez was kind of un-united like. Tevez at the moment is a great threat to all teams, and in this match he will be a threat to united, I wouldnt mind it if he scores against the team I support, because I want fergie to realize what he has let go off, no he is not overpriced, fergie just has too much confidence on berbatov and the fact that berbatov was an expensive player united bought its just crazy, he was biased. And just by looking at the number of goals he scored the first united year he sure is all worth it. And he surely was a bigger asset to west ham, but everyone moves on, so did tevez, he moved to a team he loved but didn't get the love back. And looking forward to the match
Ant (Liverpool) 4 years ago
First and foremost, excellent post and thanks for that. I am a huge fan of tevez, even when he was at United. I think he is absolutely tenacious, chasing every ball, giving everything for the team. You can tell he loves football. It sounds a little like sour grapes now to say (as a United fan) that you don't rate him and he missed as many goals as he scored.

In 2007, Tevez was Uniteds second top scorer after Ronaldo, with 14 goals.
Currently, he's Man Citys top scorer with 12 goals this season already, and you have to accept he's playing in competition for a spot against the likes of Adebayor, Santa Cruz, Bellamy etc.

Is Rooney better? I'd say yes. That doesn't mean that Tevez isn't a really great player though.

He's a proven goalscorer and provider with great pace and a superb football brain, and I'd be delighted to have a player like him at Liverpool
Donnchadh (Liverpool) 4 years ago
I agree with you Ant, he is a wonderful player. And am I mistaking or did Carlitos score some absolutely crucial goals for United over the last two years? It seems like even when he wasn't starting he would make a huge huge impact and score late goals that saved Manchester's skin again and again. It is great to have a player like that on your team, I love his tenacity. Great post anyway even if we may have a difference of opinion, surely some United fans must be eating their words now after his performance yesterday. Especially Ferguson haha, Ah good fun. I think he is a great player, one of the best strikers in the world when he is on form. Sometimes he misses chances you feel like a lesser player could have taken, but then he will make up for it with some outrageous goal and his non-stop probing at the defence. So overall I think he is a wonderful player, and for United to let him go was quite foolish, in my own opinion of course.

P. S. I will be great to see him and little Lionel play in South Africa. If they form a strong connection like Messi and Roman Riquelme used to share, watch out world
PepeLePewPew (Arsenal) 4 years ago
Tevez has always been a tenacious player with immense workrates in every game and to his credit, he's playing even better now than he did for United. He's working even harder and it's clear to see he's enjoying it and giving it his all. He's been rejuvenated after dropping off United.

While Tevez might lose a comparison to Rooney, that is most definitely a comparison most football players wouldn't mind losing. Rooney is something special, a real world class player, and there can only be so many of those. Tevez does what Rooney does, he might not ba as good, but he is great, no doubt about that.

Overall I hope Tevez can really break through this season for City and prove even further he is a great asset to any team and perhaps rub some salt in United's wounds
Gunnerous (Arsenal) 4 years ago
Was it right for Tevez and United to part ways? Yep! He didn't feel he was getting appreciated enough and wasn't getting along with the boss - and there can only be one winner when that happens at United.

Do United miss him? Damn right - Rooney never was a prolific, consistent goal getter for United. With the loss of CR7, they needed goals. While Rooney's ability to fall back and retrieve balls, that would have freed Tevez to be fox-in-the-box player. With a little help from the boss and as much playing time as Berba gets, United would surely be talking about a lot more goals this term
Silthrim (Manchester United) 4 years ago
Your post rocks man  You speak every word out for me
Fussball (Barcelona) 4 years ago
Great post to start with.
Firstly Tevez did the right thing by leaving Old trafford, where he didn't get as many starts he could have capitalised on and moreover he was kinda new to the big club thing in Epl when he moved to Man UTD from not so cash rich club Westham.
And secondly he possesses the flair that's only South Americans are proud of. It is not fair really to compare him with rooney, who is more of a European breed with flamboyance, its like saying Europe vs SA who have got 7 world cups each. So you decide!
Mcgratma (Manchester United) 4 years ago
Thank you to all that have posted your opinions already. This is great! To Ant, I never doubted Tevez's tenacity, it was always something I admired, but I felt it was something United already had an abundance of with Rooney, Fletcher and possibly Park. I feared, nearer the beginning of the season, that Tevez was destined for a similar role at City to the one he had at United, on the Bench. With the partnership of Bellamy and Adebayor working out quite well (before the run of draws they endured)it didn't seems likely that Tevez would get the run of matches he so eagerly needed. But with injuries, absences and a new manager, he has been offered a chance to prove himself and has hit a great run of form for City.

I think he will continue to play now that Mancini is in the hot seat as it doesn't seem that Bellamy is in any sort of favour with the gaffer, not to mention Santa Cruz's injuries. And Robinho, probably best we don't waste our breath on him. And it will be interesting to see how he gets on when Adebayor returns from Togo.

To touch on Gunnerous' point, I agree that Rooney's ambition to play all over the pitch provided a great opportunity for Tevez to play that 'Fox-in-the-Box' player. And the same could be said in reverse to allow Rooney play that role. However, due to his similar work rate to Rooney's, they invariably both played the same role, and neither of them ever actually got in the box, hence their lack of goals. At the time, especially in the 07/08 season this worked out to United's advantage, as their dogged work inevitably freed up Ronaldo, hence his mountain of goals that year. And yet, sadly, we no longer have that golden boy on our team sheet, so the Tevez-Rooney combo became obsolete.

Thus, I reiterate my opinion that United do not miss him as his services were no longer required.

In terms of the overpricing argument, forgive me for not making it clear that I felt he was over priced for Manchester United, especially now in their current financial situation. AndI stress, just because they have, in the past, paid exuberant prices for other players, doesn't make it right to do it again. They paid £30whatever million for Berbatov because City came along and inflated the price. You cannot honestly believe that Spurs were actually looking for that sort of money for him, when they sold their top goal scorer, Keane to Liverpool, for oly £16m. At the time many fans wanted Berbatov to be at United, and they deliverd on those expectations, regardless of the price tag. It's not Berbatov's fault he has the label of most expensive player. If you really want something, in an auctionary market, you bid the highest amount.

Alas, here I am talking about Berbatov when I promised myself I wouldn't!

One last point, on the prolificness of Tevez in front of goal, yes he has scored 12 goals this season, but so has Darren Bent (14), Jermain Defoe (14). Would you pay £25m (or the supposed £42m City have paid for Tevez) for these players? I don't think so.

I look forward to reading more of you posts.
Thanks again,
Marko
Andy (Rangers) 4 years ago
At times this season, United have been lacking options up front and some rather impotent Michael Owen cameos have proved ineffective. I think with a player like Carlitos, you can't 'not miss him.'

United mismanaged the whole situation, as far as I'm aware United did cough up the £25 million to MSI, it's just Tevez rejected the contract after such a ridiculously long drawn out saga.

Let's not forget that the only reason United didn't overspend this season was so their holding group could declare a profit. (cynical much?)

Great post mate, good to see another Belfastian!
Kingsickhead (Chelsea) 4 years ago
Simply Tevez was not a player that fit well in Manchester United's system. Untied normally has poachers up top.
Andy Cole, Dwight Yorke, Van Nisteroy etc. Tevez was being confined at Untied. The elements of his game were not needed for united to have an impact on a game. Tevez is too brilliant to be converted into a unskilled poacher. He made the right decision of leaving and he is worth his money. Why?

To me workrate is everything. When its crunch time in a game I dint want a lazy player like Berbatov or a Fuss whining player like Torres that complains every time a foul or a tackle goes against him.
I need my player to drop back and give help and defend. You might argue the point and say "well I don't need a striker to defend I need him to score". I pity the fool how believes in that theory.

Its not every game that a striker will be effective(score goal) and we all agree not every game especially in the Epl even against a lesser team will be a walk through.

I need player like a Rooney Tevez Drogba that drop back when there not getting into the game and drop back ans support most times even getting and assist. And we all agree no one does that better that Tevez!

Tevez is world class. Its quiet funny that you think Tevez starts because all the player are injured. What a joke of a character you are! A team with still has the likes of Berbatov, the 30 million Pound joke of the Epl.

And please don't find excuses for your flop, because logic is simple. If a player is not worth 30 million don't buy him! Tevez scored more goal that him when he was there and he is scoring more goal than him now. Tsk Tsk how sad a player get his chance to shine and still flops. Joga Bonita Tevez
Millzallah (Barcelona) 4 years ago
Brapp brap brap  
Mcgratma (Manchester United) 4 years ago
Kingsickhead, I appreciate you taking the time to add your opinion to this debate about the merits of Carlos Tevez as a footballer. When I open a forum on The Character of Mark McGrath , you are more than welcome to add your two cents. Until then please keep your opinion of me to yourself.

On Tevez and his starts for City, I was not suggesting that he gets on because of injuries. I was merely stating the fact that earlier in the season he wasn't getting his starting berth, due to the performances of others, and the niggling injuries he was himself suffering from. It was just an observation, not an opinion.

Also, Andy (above) has pointed out the fact that United were going to pay the £25m asked but Teve still refused, and maybe rightly so considering the saga he endured leading up to his eventual rejection. There are 2 sides of the story of course, there always will be. We may never know if Fergie was telling the truth when he explained that he was consistently asking Tevez to stay, or if Tevez himself was honest when he said he never heard from Fergie, ever. I guess my point is, to tie in with the argument Kingsickhead put forward that if a player isn't worth the money don't pay it, my attitude is, and I'm sure Kingsickhead will agree, if you want the player, and you have the money, spend it. At the time United hand funds to burn, why not utilise this. I suppose if Tevez's loan deal were running out that summer (2008), after he had a very good season, United would have paid any amount of money for him to continue his services. Unfortunately for Tevez, he did not have the best second season in my opinion, due to poor performances or lack of game time (that's for you to decide), and made me, and I am sure it made United think twice about forking out the sort of money that was being talked about.

One more point I want to make, to make sure you don't think that I'm a little sour about Tevez leaving. You'll have to take my word for it that I didn't really rate Tevez as a great footballer for a while before he signed for City. And I am not saying I prefer Berbatov either, I think he's been fairly useless also. They both have their moments, but as I said moments just don't cut it for me. I just felt having Tevez and Rooney was a bit like having both Berbatov and Ibrahimovic. They both do the same things, only one is much better at doing it than the other. If I was a bitter person, I would be much more sour at the fact that Ronaldo left, but I am not. A Player has every right to move on and live their dream. He's doing great at Madrid, and I am very happy and proud he is the one making them tick. I am a United fan of course, but above all I am a football fan. If Tevez, like Ronaldo, Beckham or Van Nistelrooy, plays good, exciting football for another team, even City, I will gladly sit back and appreciate the what I am watching.... As long as it's not against United....
Thanks
Marko
Aliko (Barcelona) 4 years ago
Millzallah (Barcelona) 4 years ago
DUDE mcgratma you got it wrong this this time. Tevez is worth 25 mill he's from south america. He's wasnt born and raised in london. You gotta' pay big bucks to keep a south american player happy and a good one at that. If you wanna look into the numbers. Liverpool paid 25m for torres who currently has 12 goals tied with gues who tevez. But that's just the stats I'm not down with that the way I measure skill is with heart and tevez has a strong one that's why they call him apache. He may not be pretty but its football mate. Lol
[account-removed] 4 years ago
Tevez doesn't step on people while they are on the ground, ala Rooney
Mcgratma (Manchester United) 4 years ago
Well, Tevez played pretty well in an otherwise scrappy game. And you can see what his work rate brings to the game as when he came off United were all over City. A well deserved Man of the Match performance. I am very much looking forward to the second leg!
To Millzallah, in my blog I didn't once mention a goal scoring statistics in regards to Tevez. These stats came from the other posters. I merely mentioned the goals scored by Tevez in a later post to make a point, that if those posters justified Tevez's valuation by stating his strike rate, then surely they would value those other players the same, mate. I only concerned myself with his all round ability and work rate, the latter he has in abundance, and the former I am still unsure of, hence, the opening of this discussion.
Marko
Millzallah (Barcelona) 4 years ago
Its all love. Bless
Charlie (Barcelona) 4 years ago
Great post, but I was kind of disappointed that some parts of your post were the exact scribbles of Paul Wilson's article Classy or Costly? Carlos Tevez has a Chance to Settle the Debate.

Can you explain that to me?
Ant (Liverpool) 4 years ago
Oh dear.

Mcgratma: "The main reason for this is the fact that United already had Wayne Rooney, who covers much of the same ground as Tevez, and also prefers to play just behind a more advanced striker. For this reason Fergie decided to stake everything on a partnership developing between Rooney and Dimitar Berbatov (with the merits of this decision another debate entirely). "

Guardian: Particularly when United already had Wayne Rooney, who covers much of the same ground as Tevez, and, like the Argentinian, prefers to play just behind a more advanced striker. Ferguson decided to stake everything on a partnership developing between Rooney and Dimitar Berbatov and let City work out how best to utilize Tevez.

Seeing as footytube has a partnership with The Guardian, might not have been the best place to plagiarise from!



   
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