Forums / The Stands: Intelligent Footy Debate
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The Ajax Side That Never Was...
Rulipan (PSV) 4 months ago
Hi everyone,

My name is Roel and I have been enjoying footytube for a couple of years now. Despite the fact that it's mainly UK-flavored, I like it a lot to see a more diverse take on the sport I love so much, instead of only sharing footy-talk with my fellow Dutchies.

I stumbled upon an old post from 2012 on SabotageTimes.com, and wondered what could have happened if such thing as 'Financial Fairplay' actually worked.

Now with all this absurd amounts flying around on the transfer market.... And Van Gaal (an Ajax-man) about to splash the cash on behalf of Man Utd, I thought this contribution might be actual.

'If' Ajax wouldn't have had to sell anyone in order to stay out of debt (a fact some other more mediterranean clubs don't seem to care much about), the Ajax team could have looked somewhat like this:

1. Cillessen
2. Van der Wiel
3. Chivu
4. Vermaelen
5. Maxwell
6. Nigel de Jong
7. Van der Vaart
8. Sneijder
9. Huntelaar
10. Zlatan
11. Suarez

(subs: Vertonghen, Eriksen, Alderweireld, Stekelenburg, Blind, Emanuelson, Suleymani, Anita)

P. S. At the same time PSV would have been playing a team that included Van Bommel, Arjen Robben, Afellay, Alex, Kevin Strootman, Dries Mertens, Amrabat, Dzsudzsak, Jeremain Lens, Danko Lazovic and Farfan.... Though that side would have had too many attackers

When is this sport ever going to be more fair? Or should we just get rid of all the 'minor' leagues and and start up an all-Emirates-Russia-Qatar league?

Don't want to rant.... I'm just really curious to know what people from countries with the bigger leagues think about this.

Looking forward to reading about your opinions.

Roel
Dougie27 (Arsenal) 3 months ago
Well in a sense, it is in fact fair for clubs like Arsenal, Man United, Liverpool etc. To spend a lot of money on players because of their worldwide support. If a club has millions of fans, the money it gains from ticket sales and merchandise from the supporters should be spent on good players. Ajax, whilst a big club, do not have that backing, and therefore they can't keep these players because naturally, if they are good enough, they want more money and they want to play in front of more people.

If past Ajax or PSV players like the ones you mentioned want to move abroad to a big club, that is fair. The situation actually wouldn't be fair if a club like Arsenal, which built itself up with merely its English support before becoming a global name, couldn't spend higher fees than most other teams. Arsenal are in a sense a more accomplished club than Ajax, playing in a superior league with a much stronger worldwide following. I hope this doesn't sound biased, but taking into account the factors of global support, quality of football etc. they are obviously a cut above an Ajax or a PSV.

If these players are going to a Chelsea or a City, then that is an entirely new problem. It's true that big clubs hold a monopoly over the smaller ones, and there is no perfect competition in any sport because of this. I hope that it will be very difficult for another Chelsea or another City to emerge with FFP beginning to take effect, especially because my club has put the most faith into the system.

In essence, not all of the players from Ajax and PSV that left were robbed from the clubs unfairly. There is a major difference between the way Arsenal or Man United spend their money to the way it is spent by Abramovich and the City people
StageFright1203 (Arsenal) 3 months ago
Yeah the Dutch league just doesn't have the following as the Prem does. People from all around the world watch the EPL and therefore they have the ability to purchase all the great players and talent from around the world and the different leagues
Th3Ma3stro (Chelsea) 3 months ago
This is unfortunately how the game has become nowadays although I don't believe clubs like chelsea or city or real madrid are at totally at fault. Most of these players don't consider clubs like Ajax or PSV clubs that they could win major competitions (Champions League being the main one) with and when players hear that Real Madrid or chelsea or city are interested in them they often leave without hesitation.

Look at Atletico Madrid they won La Liga beating two of the biggest clubs in Spain to the title yet they were unable to retain Diego Costa and Filipe Luis. Falcao left the year before even though he had won a Europa League title and Copa Del Rey. Another example is Dortmund having reached the Champions League final in 2013 they sold Mario Gotze and Lewandowski the seasons after.

Ajax and PSV have produced fantastic talent over the years and while I do agree that money is a factor I just think that the decline of Ajax as a force on the European stage has also been a major factor. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think that their last European final was in 1996.

Perhaps Ajax PSV Dortmund Atletico need to make more of an impact on the European stage if they want to not only keep their star players but attract top quality players
OMGClayAiken (Arsenal) 2 months ago
"Look at Atletico Madrid they won La Liga beating two of the biggest clubs in Spain to the title yet they were unable to retain Diego Costa and Filipe Luis"

That contradicts what you said above that. If Atletico are capable of competing on the highest level, able to win the title in Spain as well as the Champions League and yet they cannot keep their top players, that means it's not about trophies, prestige, competition. Atletico could provide all of that. They only thing they can't, is money
Rulipan (PSV) 3 months ago
Thanks for the quality responses.

I agree with the fact that Ajax and PSV are currently nowhere as it comes to competing with any other clubs in Europe. This hasn't always been the case, but truth be told: we'd have to go a long way back. It has been a downward spiral since end last century.

Some things bother me about the way things have gone and are going....

I. Netherlands didn't use to have foreign money involved. Now Vitesse is a satellite club for Chelsea, which means that half of their selection is a Chelsea loan (how many players are on the payroll there?). This lack of foreign money, mostly of Arab or Russian origin (ethical concerns, anyone?), has kept Dutch teams small and caused necessity to sell players to keep the bottom line healthy. Apparently, teams in other countries either don't care about that, or don't have to care because of backing with oil dollars.

II. Ajax is in fact still a very big name world wide. I feel that Arsenal is one of the few clubs that I can admire for the way they deal with talents and their financial situation. Although, I'm afraid this is starting to change as well.

III. English teams are not just buying up all talent that's available in Netherlands. They do the same to Southampton.

I've. Figure this: I remember Ronaldo and Kaka were bought at the same time that Dutch Aegon bank was bailing out the Spanish banks. The same Spanish banks that loaned Madrid the money to afford Kaka and Ronaldo. That same year, Ajax was defeated by Madrid. Aegon is head sponsor for Ajax. The irony....

V. Players from Ajax, PSV and Feyenoord will of course look for bigger clubs. But nowadays, our best players are leaving for teams like Norwich, Newcastle, Southampton and Swansea.... With all respect: are they bigger than Ajax and PSV? Feyenoord tried to qualify against Besiktas yesterday.... Without Janmaat, De Vrij, Martins Indi and Pelle, they had just been sold.

VI. Last year's Champion League eight finals, only 5 out of 16 (!) were NOT backed by dubious money:

"Dubious"
-- Barcelona (Qatar)
-- Atlético (Kazachstan)
-- AC Milan (Emirates)
-- Real Madrid (Emirates)
-- Paris St. Germain (Emirates)
-- Arsenal (Emirates)
-- Man City (Etihad)
-- Chelsea (Abramovich)
-- Bayern (Uli Hoeness)
-- Zenit (Gazprom)
-- Schalke (Gazprom)

"Clean"
-- Man Utd
-- Dortmund
-- Galatasaray
-- Olympiakos
-- Leverkusen

(P. S. Ajax did manage to beat Barcelona and end up with 8 points.... Typically drawing against Milan.... Mainly thanks to Balotelli's fairplay tactics.

VII. Dutch Eredivisie isn't too bad. The Dutch team played the WC with more than 50% Eredivisie players in the starting 11.... That's not just to Van Gaal's credit. Only thing is: most of those Eredivisie players have already left the competition.

Viii. How come Mathieu is sold to Barcelona for 20 million, as at the same time De Vrij (21, best defender of world cup) is sold to Lazio for 8 million? Both defenders.... I don't get it.

IX. Did you know that Atleti barely got as much as 20% of Falcao's transfer to Monaco? The other money went to investors. Same goes for Porto's players. Investing companies shuffle players around all over Europe, making huge profits on this 'human trade'.

You know.... I can be really proud when a player follows the path similar to what Van Persie has done. Unfortunately, this is really exception than rule.

Sorry for the rant.... I'm just a person who has an incredible passion for the game, but I'm losing my love for it as it's getting dirtier, more unfair and plays corruption and mafia right in their favor.

On the other hand, I shouldn't be too optimistic for change as long as Blatter and friends are still in control.

Thanks for reading!
Northstream (Tottenham Hotspur) 3 months ago
Let me also mention 'The Ajax player that never was'....
In 1973 Ajax wanted Norwegian Tom Lund to fill the gap after Cruyff but he ended up turning them down, like he did with every other foreign top club wanting him. Lund had aviophobia - fear of flying, which made it very difficult for him. He is still today regarded as Norway's best player ever, playing his entire career with Lillestrøm. He led them to two league titles and three cup trophies. He was also the player who picked England to pieces when Norway beat them 2-1 in the 1981 World Cup qualifier. Every time Lund played in Europe for Lillestrøm or Norway he would drive while the rest of the team flew.

Other well known footballers with aviophobia are 'non-flying Dutchman' Dennis Bergkamp and Peruvian Paolo Guerrero whom in 2010 for days kept walking on and off flights bound for Germany, when he played for HSV.

Sorry, I took your thread a bit off course but thought I'd mention Tom Lund who was an amazing player and so very nearly could have become an Ajax and European football legend.
Rulipan (PSV) 2 months ago
Thanks for sharing that though, I understand why you mention him. That's a great story!

Would you happen to know where to find a short documentary on him?
Northstream (Tottenham Hotspur) 2 months ago
You'll find a video and more facts about why Ajax and the likes of Real Madrid and Bayern München wanted him here (click in to the YouTube website)



And here is another video


Rulipan (PSV) 1 month ago
Thanks!
Rulipan (PSV) 1 month ago
Btw, they're saying Martin Ødegaard is going to come to Ajax.... Wouldn't that be nice?
Rulipan (PSV) 2 months ago
Back on-topic: there's an interesting game coming up on Wednesday....

Ajax — Paris Saint-Germain

Maxwell, Van der Wiel, Zlatan.... All three are ex-Ajacieden. And Alex, he is a former PSV player.
Rulipan (PSV) 2 months ago
[duplicate removed]
Rulipan (PSV) 2 months ago
Yesterday's 1-1 can be regarded as a victory for Ajax...
Chelo (Real Madrid) 1 month ago
Zlatan, Suarez, Chivu, Vermaelen? Well if this worked for all the clubs you wouldn't have had those players neither



   
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