Forums / The Stands: Intelligent Footy Debate
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Referee Bashing
Matt (Footytube Staff) 5 years ago
No that's not a euphemism for a mans special alone time but an invite to discuss the protection the referees get from criticism.

Sir Alex Ferguson's comments after his sides 2-2 draw with Sunderland are under investigation by the FA after he questioned Alan Wiley's fitness "The pace of the game demanded a referee who was fit. He was not fit. It was ridiculous, " he added "I was disappointed with the referee.
"He didn't add on any time for the goal. He played four minutes and two seconds. He was also walking up the pitch for the second goal needing a rest.
"You see referees abroad who are as fit as butcher's dogs. Was taking 30 seconds to book a player. He was not fit. "

Apparently he (Alan Wiley) even admitted to Rooney he needed a rest.

Sam Allardyce's comments on referee Peter Walton are also being reviewed after he said: "It was a blatant penalty. In the pressure pot of this league, you have to get major decisions right. If the officials are not good enough, we should find someone who is. "

Managers are allowed to comment on an officials performance however they are not allowed to imply bias or attack them personally.

As far as I can see both of the above comments are questioning the performance so why are they under investigation? Referee's seem to have this carte blanche to make mistakes and never pay for them.

I think managers should be able to voice their concerns and instead of the FA investigating the managers they should investigate the claims made. Give Alan Wiley a bleep test if he fails he's out till he passes it and get Peter Walton to review the incident and explain why it wasn't a penalty if he can't he is out till he can see it
Vonrasmussen (Manchester United) 5 years ago
I agree with you Matt, neither of these really seem to imply bias or attack them personally.

Secondly the referee is a person, as a person he is prone to make mistakes sooner or later, it's human nature. If a someone can't bring these to the forefront without incurring a fine or ban on matches we've kind of lost part of the game altogether.

Political Correctness is striving to such measures that opinions are becoming a thing of the past. You can't like dislike something or think it was rubbish without a huge judgement call being made.

I don't blame the FA, managers, or the referees, it's simply the state of society these days. I bet back in the day the managers could say whatever they felt, it was their right as a manager to comment about the man who has the greatest impact on the game, being the referee.

Having said all that I'm not trying to defend Fergie, but instead ask us why we should be defending at all. We're all so sensitive,
Yogan (Chelsea) 5 years ago
Well I don't like Alex Ferguson anyhow. But really he should just be getting on with the game. Football is a game. At least they drew! Manchester United were disappointing anyway, and they were extremely lucky for the deflection. So why is he having a go at referees? Maybe he should go and have a jog, or look in the mirror. His build compared to Alan Wiley's is unmissable! Come on, just go with it. I think we all should just face it. He's just a mardy tos.... Well, you know.

The game has to be refereed so why don't these managers think logically? Why doesn't he go and get ranted at by a manager when he (Sam Allardyce) is jogging kilometres on the pitch? I don't like the prospect. Referees are trained, there is no reason to have a go on them. Life isn't fair. And sometimes people just make mistakes!
Dempsey (Fulham) 5 years ago
Do you remember a certain game this past season? It was the semifinal for the champions league. Chelsea vs. Barcelona. Refs have some major f*ck ups and should be reprimanded for doing so
Eric (Manchester United) 5 years ago
I think being critical of a manager's physique is an absurd argument. Referee's need to be fit and able to make every decision as accurately as humanly possible. Not that I agree with SAF's comments, but attacking SAF's physical fitness is nonsense. A manager's job is to support, train, and lead his team to victory. Often times supporting your team is to attempt to deflect negative press, and a lot of the time this involves attacking the referee if there is something to complain about. It did look like the referee in the United match was quite tired. SAF is pointing it out to deflect some of the negativity of United's poor performance. The same can be said for Allardyce's comments. Would you make the same claims in regards to the champions league semifinal as Dempsy here mentioned? Manager's have every right to complain about a referee's decisions. It's as much part of the game as is poor officiating.

People do make mistakes, but that doesn't mean nothing can be done about it. Major decisions that are poorly made need to be answered for. If a referee makes a mistake, we can't just say, "Oh well, life isn't fair. " Especially if the referee makes multiple poor decisions
ArmstrongCPFC (Crystal Palace) 5 years ago
I'm with you on this 1 eric.... Lets also not forget sir alex is pushing 70 odd, and if he wasnt a genius he'd probably be a referee aswell instead of being the most successful manager to grace our times
RedsMarchOn (Manchester United) 5 years ago
Well said Matt. The 'Respect' campaign makes perfect sense, but surely the referees can't be protected to the extent whereby managers are investigated everytime a comment is made on their performance. The way I see it, players are under scrutiny literally every week and are expected to explain incidents they're involved in ; though an official in the wrong has no one to answer to.

Officials like Peter Walton should have to expand on the decisions they make at some point.

Brilliant idea giving Alan Wiley a bleep test aswell.... The FA should make themselves useful and video that.
Donnchadh (Liverpool) 5 years ago
They go through arduous testing as it is, just because SAF is complaining doesn't mean Wiley should go through more of it
Jeroen (Barcelona) 5 years ago
Quite the opposite happens in Belgium: our refs do an amazing job, they rarely make mistakes, a re very fit but still get criticised for every single thing that goes wrong, even if it's not their fault. I admit they do make mistakes here, but some things are just hidden from the eye when you're on the pitch.
Some discussion between the refs and the managers after the game if the managers ask for it wouldn't be bad IMHO
Incuteration (Everton) 5 years ago
Why do managers blame referees when everything goes wrong? They are also human beings like them. They just couldn't get a better job by being a manager. Managers think they are so perfect and blames everything on the referee once that make one or two mistakes only.

Sir Alex, if you blame the referee for adding time for goal celebration, why don't your team play well in the first place? If Manchester United would play well, they would have a couple of goals and would not care about the goal and the time. Referees do make mistakes or should I say human do make mistakes, I know sometimes I criticise referee but those are obvious mistakes, those that are obvious mistakes can't be tolerated.

But sometimes I have to agree that I think referees are irritating and such, they give free kicks for nothing, just play advantage and let them play on. So hard to do that? Even on the own half area, they must blow for free kicks.

For managers that insult the referee, just become a referee yourself and see how is it to be a referee, especially you, Sir Alex
Blueskiesahead (Chelsea) 5 years ago
I have no problem questioning a referees decision but to publicly emphasize the fact that a ref is not as fit as he should be is humiliating and wrong. Had he reported it formally to the FA rather than to the media this would be different but he chose to tell the whole world about his oppinions on the referees fitness.

Now for big sam, he was fine up until he implied that the FA needs new refs. Again personally attacking the referee is not right especially when done in front of the media.

Again I have no problem with coaches and players complaining about a missed call, but to personally insult a referee is taking it too far for me
Ltm017 5 years ago
I agree with everything you said. Refs make mistakes.... They know it we know it, but just like everything else its about respect.... Wait till you are somewhere where no one can hear you then let out the frustration. Plus you have to be careful its the ref! People will forgive but not forget!
Blueskiesahead (Chelsea) 5 years ago
Lol very true. Have fun next time wiley refs your match fergie
Riggs (Manchester United) 5 years ago
I'm not so sure fergie really cared how the referee was. After a bad performance by man united, I think he wanted to take pressure off the team and draw attention elsewhere. Or he could be just trying to hit 2 birds with the same stone. It probably wasnt the most polite thing to do, but I think it worked. His comments defintely have drawn attention away from some maybe bad selections and definitely some bad play by united. I think this is just fergie managing off the pitch as good as he manages on the pitch
Riggs (Manchester United) 5 years ago
Fergie said this now

“i apologise to Mr Wiley for any personal embarrassment that my remarks may have caused and to The FA for going public with my views.

“In retrospect, I accept that this could be deemed as expressing those views in an inappropriate forum.

“It was never my intention to bring the focus of intense media attention on Mr Wiley. I intend to contact him personally after I return from a trip overseas during this international break.

“i would wish it to be noted that I have always respected Mr Wiley’s integrity and that I did not state or imply:

· that Mr Wiley is a bad referee;
· that he was in any way biased;
· that decision-making generally during the game was poor, or
· that he missed any key incident during the game.

“My only intention in speaking publicly, was to highlight what I believe to be a serious and important issue in the game, namely that the fitness levels of referees must match the ever increasing demands of the modern game, which I hope will now be properly addressed through the appropriate formal channels. ”
Blueskiesahead (Chelsea) 5 years ago
Well at least the man had enough class to appologize for his comments. One of the great things about SAF.... Usually
Ant (Liverpool) 5 years ago
Make no mistake, the only reason he apologised was because his advisers told him to do it or he'll face a ban. He says what he likes, about who he likes, when he likes. That's not class or bravery, that's arrogance
Blueskiesahead (Chelsea) 5 years ago
True that
Kaizersoyze (Manchester United) 5 years ago
Well as per Sir Alex's apology and reply, it makes everything clear. He wasn't trying to diss all the referees or this particular one for doing a bad job all in all. He just voiced his opinion about his fitness. I think managers should be allowed to voice their opinions regarding referees in this context.

Referees, as mentioned earlier by other posts on this thread, do get away with wrong decisions. These critic reviews will help put a tab on them in a way.

I think voicing of opinion should be allowed and not be condemned as insults!
Blueskiesahead (Chelsea) 5 years ago
True, managers should be allowed to voice their oppinions. Nothing will ever change for the better if they don't afterall. But it can still be done properly and not in front of the whole world. That is my only real problem with this
ManUK (Manchester United) 5 years ago
Personally I think they're making a big deal about it I saw the matches and what they said is almost all true, Sir Alex didn't go up to the ref directly and start chewing him out. That's what They have been told not to do cause it was a problem. They where just telling their concerns about the ref and it will make games better if they improve. So I think for the most part it's good that they spoke out
Blueskiesahead (Chelsea) 5 years ago
Its good that he said something yes, but its not good who he said it to. Report it to the FA not the media. Imagine turning on the television to here fergie has said that you are too fat to do anything right. Just not right
On3two (Manchester United) 5 years ago
Even though Fergie just apologised for his comments recently it has to be said that it was totally unfair for him to hit out how he did. This will now put pressure on Wiley for any futures matches he referees in a match with United. It has to be said that referees are human after all and its not as if they never need a rest or make a mistake. If a player had this same problem, every manager would have something to say during a match but they don't do it because it is common, so why is it different for a ref? Some managers need to give the benefit of the doubt and not just hit out when their team does poorly
Pocketg99 (Arsenal) 5 years ago
Refs will make mistakes, they do in every sport. In fact everyone makes mistakes. It's not really fair to criticize an honest mistake, but people always will. Now bribery is different and downright cheating should be criticized
CHELSEA61 (Chelsea) 5 years ago
I can see why this is such a big issue. I say this with no intent of malice to Manchester United but very simply put Sir Alex is playing the double standard card. He made no attempt to criticize the refs decision to add time in the Man City match when it benefited United but as soon as a ref makes an error against United the ref is hit with accusations of being out of shape. This is why Sir Alex is being reviewed by the F. A
Ant (Liverpool) 5 years ago
The head of the referees association wants Ferguson to have a coaching ban for his outrageous statements and half-hearted apology.

Link: news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/m/man_utd/...

"He clearly hasn't retracted his statement about Alan being unfit so it's not an apology to Alan for the main offence caused. He then widens it to question the fitness of other referees in the select group."

Dempsey (Fulham) 5 years ago
I don't know what else the head of the referees wants fergie to do. He apologized for going public with his claim of Wiley being unfit which he most certainly was. Has the head of referees seen Alan Wiley? If he thinks he's fit, he's having a laugh. I wouldnt want that fatty reffing one of my games haha
Salt (Aston Villa) 5 years ago
I think Ferguson must have gotten a good handful of love-handle when he was feeling Wiley up during the final stages of the Manchester derby the other week. And he clearly didn't like. Can the FA seriously do him or not being a Chubby-Chaser?!
Seantoon (Newcastle United) 5 years ago
Alex Ferguson always seems to get away lightly with comments he makes about referee's...
Blueskiesahead (Chelsea) 5 years ago
Hopefully action is taken against him. Somebody has to sometime. SAF shouldn't get away with as much as he does
Eric (Manchester United) 5 years ago
1) Wiley is hardly fit to officiate a game.
2) SAF was primarily taking media pressure off his team by causing controversy involving only him and no one else involved with the club. This creates press based on his comments, not press based on his teams poor performance. This will take pressure off of the players for having a poor performance so they don't have the media breathing down their necks the next time a match comes round. SAF has been around the block more than once and has perfected the art of deflecting negative press from his players/team performances.
3) It was a half-hearted apology. Mostly because what he said is marginally true, and it keeps the press going on about it. The man is a shrewd tactician. I think a 4 match coaching ban would be ridiculous. An over-reaction to something that, while shouldn't have been complained about to the media (from the ref associations viewpoint), has a fair amount of truth to it
Blueskiesahead (Chelsea) 5 years ago
A 4 match ban is too much for my liking as well.... Maybe a 2 match ban would be fair. But other managers (and SAF himself) need to realize that they can't get away with this. True wiley is unfit, but that's no reason to go out and say it to the world
Ant (Liverpool) 5 years ago
If Arsene Wenger or Mark Hughes said after a match that they think Alex Ferguson had a drink problem and you can tell by the dark blue, bruised look of his nose, what do you expect would happen? That's also a personal insult akin to saying Wiley is too fat and unfit to referee a match
Eric (Manchester United) 5 years ago
It certainly would be a similar insult. However, a drinking problem has no bearing on SAF's ability to perform his job, as is represented by his success at Old Trafford. May even be an explanation for his successes, haha. I'm not saying what he did was morally right, just offering a reasonable explanation for why he did so instead of simply saying he's spiteful and hates officials. Had United won comfortably, SAF wouldn't have mentioned it and may have gone through the proper channels to lodge a complaint. Since they had such a poor performance he had to deflect negative press and create some form of press frenzy around him and not the poor team performance. He deserves a short match ban, but 4 matches would be ridiculous
Salt (Aston Villa) 5 years ago
The reason that you go abroad and see referees that are "as fit as a butcher's dog" is because only the very top referees are involved in the Champion's League. If he was to go abroad and watch some Turkish 3rd division game I'm not convinced he'd see the same standard of fitness in the officials!
Diablo28 (Real Madrid) 5 years ago
IT seems like for the referees union thought Sir Alex Ferguson has gone too far and are asking for a ban.... At least for 4 games. His apologies did not mean anything for them which I think is ridiculous
Blueskiesahead (Chelsea) 5 years ago
No doubt wiley is unfit and needs to work on that (if for nothing else but his health) but I still believe fergie deserves a ban. 4 matchs seems much too harsh to me though
Theturkishkop (Galatasaray SK) 4 years ago
Don't go so far you can watch any super league game to see how they f*cked up



   
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