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Deserved Bans Or Bias Against Manchester United
JustGary (Manchester United) 5 years ago
First Sir Alex Ferguson with a 5 match ban and now Wayne Rooney with a 2 match ban.

1. Are these bans fair (proportionate) punishment?
2. Or is the FA once again being biased against Manchester United by making a special example out of them?
3. What comments about refereeing are acceptable and is swearing part of the game?
JustGary (Manchester United) 5 years ago
Swearing in sports is nothing new. From John McEnroe to Roger Federer, from Harbhajan Singh to Kevin Pietersen and from Steven Gerrard to Wayne Rooney swearing within professional sport happens all the time. The FA can talk to the players but in the heat of the moment the player will always revert to his "own" language!

Football is a game of passion, of blood, sweat and tears. It is a contact sport where the physical and mental demands on a modern day player are higher than ever before. If people are committed then swearing is inevitable!

Apparently some people were upset by the aggression with which Rooney celebrated his hat-trick, but it was probably that same aggression that inspired him to score it the hat-trick in the first place.

When an opposition player moves to the sidelines to take a corner or a throw in the camera quite clearly picks out fans hurling abuse and swear words and the camera laps it up. Once again the media, the FA and a few uncharitable, small minded supporters of rival teams can spot a prey.

Swearing can be used in derogatory terms or to cause offence but it is also often used at times of celebration by both players and fans.

Saying a curse word a couple of times doesn’t really register on my disappointment scale. The victims are Manchester United and Wayne Rooney who after turning the fortunes of his team around by scoring a hat-trick in 14 minutes is now being vilified for uttering a few swear words which I am sure many a home and away fan did the moment Rooney’s penalty hit the back of the net!

Let’s not support the FA and those who would join in a mean-spirited alliance to turn football into a sanctimonious, passionless, non-contact sport for the social elite and for what a great former Manchester United midfielder called the ‘prawn-sandwich brigade’.

They just want to stop us getting number 19. But they can't because we are Manchester United and Winning Is What We Do!
Markodon (NK Dinamo Zagreb) 5 years ago
I think this belongs in the Manchester United Chat, no offence
Theo (Chelsea) 5 years ago
"They just want to stop us getting number 19. But they can't because we are Manchester United and Winning Is What We Do"

? No. What Shrek did was stupid and totally uncalled for; yes almost every player curses on the field, and sometimes you can hear them on tv and all, but in this case.... He did it directly to the camera. I don't know about you, but imagine watching the game with kids like I was? Maybe I should have been warned that I was about to watch an X-rated game lol. He totally deserves it - but I still don't get why he should be banned for the FA Cup. Should just be league games imo. And as for Sir Alex, he deserves whatever happens to him, he has been disrespecting the refs for FAR too long.... And you know it!
TheBarcaShow (Footytube Staff) 5 years ago
Swearing isn't X-rated its pg-13 (Canadian ratings)

Is swearing really that bad? Yes he did it directly to the camera. I bet you most of the parents watching swear at the kids, and the kids were already swearing at their parents, nothing new.

If your children swear will that make you worse as a parent? No, it is frowned upon but it doesn't have an much effect on child growth than the actions of actually parenting
Theo (Chelsea) 5 years ago
LOL kids swear at their parents in canada? And of course everyone has their view on swearing, but I bet you the vast majority of parents watching that with their kids were and very rightly should have been upset. And I was watching the game with my 4 year old sister and 7 year old cousin, that is THE last thing I want them hearing or saying
Cramonda (Real Cartagena) 5 years ago
Maybe the problem is the shitty f*****g parents, not Wayne Rooney.
And I don't live in engalnd or have ever been, but I'm pretty sure that that's not the first place they heard that language
Theo (Chelsea) 5 years ago
True. But what about the parents that do not curse in front of their children? I have no stats in front of me, but that would be a s**t load of people lol
Cramonda (Real Cartagena) 5 years ago
Mmmmmmmmmmm still, I think its wrong for grown ass man to be fined to be using "foul" language
Tony (footytube staff) 5 years ago
I don't go with the bias angle, because if I did, I wouldnt watch football anymore, its an absurb thing to say, its effectively saying the fa and prem league don't want us to succeed, and look what we have won.
In saying that, rooneys ban is a joke, it should have been no more than a fine, people swear in their work everyday, and i've heard worse in playgrounds.
Kids brought up in the right way are not gonna' copy rooney
Eric (Manchester United) 5 years ago
Agreed. Really it's the Broadcaster's problem for catching the audio for the celebration. I see accidental cursing all the time. Sure it was directly at the camera, but seriously this should be a non-issue. A hefty fine would have sufficed. FA is just overreacting to some nasty letters they received from some over-protective parents. Not banning Rooney just because he's on United. Also, the SAF ban is standard. Managers are banned whenever they openly criticize the officials, SAF included. Is banning managers for criticising officials correct? Maybe, if the criticism is arguably unjust (which sometimes SAF is unfair to the officials). But maybe not.... I understand the Respect campaign and all, but officials need to be responsible for some of the ridiculous decisions they give. I have no knowledge of what consequences an official faces given a glaring error in judgement for a match; are there any, or do they simply file a report and be done with it?
Ant (Liverpool) 5 years ago
I've heard of referees getting removed from higher ranking duties, or even bumped down a league or two if they consistently make bad errors
Tony (footytube staff) 5 years ago
Well eric, I don't think waynes reaction was accidental mate, I just think he was hyped and sticking two fingers up to everyone that was on his case, because he did have a very frustrating time with fitness and form, it still doesent excuse it, but a massive fine, given to a childrens charity would have more than sufficed, and something positive would have come out of it, and left rooney a few quid lighter
Joeymac (Manchester United) 5 years ago
Ant, I really hope what you say will be implemented into the premier league soon. I think they already do this in the bundesliga, a promotion/ relegation system for officials
Eric (Manchester United) 5 years ago
Haven't seen too much of this if any in the EPL.

@Tony - True it wasn't accidental. However, I do see cursing across a variety of sports accidental and not and the most that is ever imposed is a fine if anything at all
TheBarcaShow (Footytube Staff) 5 years ago
I think the ban on Rooney is necessary. He shouldn't have done what he did.
He went up to the camera and did it that makes it "bad".

If they are afraid of the influence that Rooney has had on the kids then why don't they do something to counter it? A ban doesn't erase from memories what he said. Rooney apologized for it but does it really do anything?
Tony (footytube staff) 5 years ago
Does a two match ban do anything, bar cause accusations against the fa and their decision making?
They need to be consistent with this, and they are far from it, as usual
TheBarcaShow (Footytube Staff) 5 years ago
No the ban doesn't do anything, I think a 2 match ban is pretty harsh though.

They may be making an example of Rooney and Manchester United though. I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case
Ant (Liverpool) 5 years ago
If I stood up in my office here and shouted obscenities at the top of my voice, believe me I'd know all about it when management called me in. Rooney should be no different.

What should have happened was a fine for Rooney, which is then given to charity. No ban necessary. I think it's wrong to say United are getting bias against them and the FA don't want them to win.

As another point to note, he has done this kind of thing before during the World cup
Northstream (Tottenham Hotspur) 5 years ago
I agree with Ant. It's unacceptable hooligan behaviour to storm up to the TV cameras and let loose. What if that was common practise? A two match ban might seem harsh but FA also have to come with a strong indicator that this is not in any way acceptable so don't even try it.

The funny thing about it all is that most of Rooney's anger & frustrations would be directed towards the United fans, who he would see as having been non-supportive of him during his troubled season...
Ant (Liverpool) 5 years ago
The United fans have had plenty of ammunition to be unsupportive. Before his recent run of goals, he went something like 18 months without a goal from open play and during that time, he had threatened to leave United for Man City if he didn't get more money. Any bad feelings that are aimed at him from fans or rivals, he brings on himself. Now that he's banged in a few goals, all is forgiven it seems
ManUK (Manchester United) 5 years ago
I never stopped thinking he was a good player, and I've always thought he had a big influence on the game wether he was scoring goals or not. Saying that though, I also think he was a greedy pig and has done a lot of idiotic things in his time.

But I agree with you Ant there's no bias against United. Should have just been a fine, it's that simple
JustGary (Manchester United) 5 years ago
There is no question as to whether what Rooney did in swearing was wrong. Even if the words were used in terms of celebration they are still words which are generally used to cause offence and would therefore be offensive words. Rooney was wrong!

My issue was on the appropriateness of punishment, especially in the context of competitive sporting effort where sports people are performing close to the edge of human emotions, concentration, ability and effort and therefore must on occasions go over the edge. That's why I gave the example of normally mild mannered Roger Federer swearing. These things happen in sport.

Drogba had a similar but much more intense incident but even then I felt a degree of understanding was merited and should have been reflected in the punishment he received because, under intense conditions, sports people and people in general do 'crack' from time to time and say or do things without full calculation.

The 'they' in "they don't want to see us win" is not the FA but it is those who would join in with the FA and I've identified who they are above and I am suggesting their real motives. For the FA themselves I just think they want to be seen to be tough and therefore seek to make a particular example of Manchester United but sentencing/punishment should be applied in a consistent manner to top of the EPL or bottom of the lower league
Matt (Footytube Staff) 5 years ago
This thread perfectly sums up the problem with the FA seemingly handing down punishments almost at random.

We have all 'seen' players swearing on the pitch be it a derisory 'f**k off ref' or a celebratory 'f*****g come on!' and yet no punishment has been handed out. So we can only guess that the punishment is not for swearing but for the proximity of the camera whilst swearing is taking place.

Simply a guess, and that's the problem we can only guess at the actual moment it went from the normal swearing to swearing that merited a two game ban.

Whilst we are guessing there will always be the talk of injustice and bias.

I personally think Rooney's forearm smash a few weeks back was much worse than a bit of cussing
Hill (Arsenal) 5 years ago
When I heard of the ban I thought it was a sort of "make-up" call so to speak, for the forearm bash
JustGary (Manchester United) 5 years ago
The Karma argument is the only one which really seems to make some sense. Rooney aside, I hope the FA is not setting a precedent that will sanitize the game (further) but also diminish the passion. We want to see players who are passionate about the game and take pride in their performance to ensure the game remains more real than produced
FootyRulz (Chelsea) 5 years ago
I think a fine should have been enough for a punishment but maybe the FA thought that this would be some sort of cover up for not suspending him for that foul in the Wigan
Ant (Liverpool) 5 years ago
Looks like his appeal for the ban was rejected, but he wasn't given any more games banned for the frivolous appeal

I don't think United will miss him too much with Chicarito/Berba
Anirudhkitt (Real Madrid) 5 years ago
To be absolutely honest, I am not sure of the ferguson ban, but I am absolutely 100% sure that rooney had to get punished. Not that its rooney's fault, I mean his aggressive nature is part of his game and has helped in more than one tight occasion. Manchester united cannot be part of any smear campaign imo but just some punishment which they would do good to forget about.

However, I think the tv viewers and broadcasters are the ones paying money to clubs, which in turn pay his wages, so if they want to keep the broadcast such that a 5 year old can watch it, I think it is fair. And let us not get into a parenting debate, but I am sure many parents would object to the swearing.

Also I do not think it will affect them much, because they have other good strikers and ferguson's ban is inconsequential. They should be the favorites against Man [C.]
Ant (Liverpool) 5 years ago
I agree with all of that. United still have to be favourites, even without Rooney. Yes, other players swear, but none scream redfaced into a camera, agrressively verbally attacking it, and by proxy, the viewer. A kid sitting at home didn't see Rooney put on a show of delight at scoring a goal, he saw a show of pure anger and violent expletive filled threats from someone staring directly at him down the camera.

Before anyone says I'm anti-United, yes I absolutely am, but in this case I would be saying exactly the same thing if Suarez or Carroll did it
JustGary (Manchester United) 5 years ago
Ant (Liverpool) 5 years ago
Perhaps if Reina had ran the width of the pitch to a cameraman, put his face in the camera and screamed "What? f*****g What? f*****g what? " we could compare the two incidents. The Reina example happens with every player, every time a card is shown. Also, Reina's reaction was made with denial not aggression. Can you genuinely see no difference between Rooneys incident and this?

I'm pretty sure no-one could argue that Reina has an aggression problem, but it would be quite easy to argue that Rooney has one.

As I've said several times on this topic, I think a ban was unnecessary. I recommended a fine at most, donated to charity
Eric (Manchester United) 5 years ago
I am getting a kick out of watching Reina saying "No f***ing way!" over and over again though
BigD123 (Wolverhampton Wanderers) 5 years ago
I like the idea of a football swear box makes money for charities or maybe grass roots / youth and a more acceptable punishment than missing an FA cup semi against your biggest rivals
Ant (Liverpool) 5 years ago
Superintendent Mark Payne on Rooneys foulmouth tirade.

"If Rooney had behaved like that in Wolverhampton on Saturday night, I would have expected my officers to lock him up. People in positions of influence have an obligation to behave like human beings. It is not a lot to ask. I have seen a thousand Rooneys, and I am sure most police officers will have. The same aggressive stance, the bulging eyes, the foul-mouthed rant, fists clenched, surrounded by his mates, all cheering him on."

I think Fergusons response was awful, belittling the man, trying to humiliate him for his opinion.

"There is a wee guy, sitting down there in the Midlands, probably never been recognised in his life, managed to elevate himself to whatever it is in the police force."
Hill (Arsenal) 5 years ago
What an asshole
Marcinny (New York Red Bulls) 5 years ago
That's very low of Fergie. And I am someone who respects him very much and are delighted by United's string of successes lately.

Yes, Rooney would not be arrested, no matter what this Superintendent said. And yes, rarely anyone is arrested just for swearing. And yes, he is taking a shot at Rooney when everyone is which offers the perfect example of a "lynching" process.

Nevertheless. Fergie was out of line and very careless. And if you ask me, he should apologize to this guy and to people out there. Because at ;east 99% of the United fans in their stands and around the world, are after all "wee guys". Few people happen to become celebrities and millionaires even if they are very good in their professions. That's not a reason for them to be excluded for expressing opinions.
On the contrary. From the moment when you approach the camera to say something controversial, you have given all the "wee guys" out there a license to comment on it. And they will
Hill (Arsenal) 5 years ago
Everything you just said Marcinny I agree with. Football fans in general are all "wee" guys. We live vicariously through our teams and love them to death. For Fergie to put down a fan of the game, no matter what he's said about Rooney (especially since its mostly true), is so low.

I agree, apology is in order
LumpOfCelery (Chelsea) 5 years ago
King Alex Ferguson? He has done alot for managing football, and I respect his philosophy, BUT he is in no way allowed to talk to a fellow human bieng like that
Ant (Liverpool) 5 years ago
Seems to be quite a backlash against it. The thing is if Fergie had said nothing, rode through the storm, he would have been fine. Seems like the mind games are affecting him now, not vice versa.

"Ferguson, asked about the officer's argument, refused to address the question of whether Rooney was setting a bad example as a role model. Instead he latched on to Payne's remark that young men behaving as Rooney ought to expect arrest. Payne is in a better position to know the arresting policy in Wolverhampton than the manager of Manchester United whose belittling of the police officer became unpleasant."
Eric (Manchester United) 5 years ago
Go SAF go! F*** THE police, that's what I always say.    Out of line, surely. SAF is generally overly defensive of his players though.
Joeymac (Manchester United) 5 years ago
I don't believe that there is a blatant bias against United. I do think though, that since it does happen to be United, it draws more attention than it would if this incident had happened at Wigan or somewhere else. I don't think it is an intentional bias, but of course more attention will be attracted since it occurs within arguably the most popular team in the world.

The argument for "the kids watching at home, they heard a bad word" is not a good one in my opinion, not a good one at all.
In saying this, it is saying Rooney set a bad example for the kids, which he did, and I'm not defending his actions.

But, if a two match ban is handed out on the basis of that specific argument, then the FA are now obligated to look at every single incident that occurs during a football game, and if it is deemed inappropriate judging by standards of "good examples to the children", then hand out two match bans.
Now that includes diving, complaining about calls made by officials, yelling at the linesman, yelling at teammates, celebrating in front of away fans. After all, that is teaching kids how to cheat, influence the game, influence refs, complain, not respect authority figures, and rub in celebrations, right?

Then one could argue that it should be extended to the fans, dirty and tasteless chants, the managers even more so than they are already restricted, and so on and so on.
Pretty soon, everything that makes football the sport it is, the passion, the joy, the excitement, will warrant a ban, and the game will be ruined.

Now I know that was an extreme example, but it is certainly possible, since I have not heard anything about swearing earning a two match ban in the rule book.
That's why I think a fine would have done, because the FA have set themselves a standard, and I for one do not believe that they will follow it
Ant (Liverpool) 5 years ago
Something this tpic doesn't have yet is the incident itself.

There's something about it that feels more like Rooney is squaring up to the viewer looking for a fight than anything else, very aggressive and confrontational. I think that's the destinction - if he had ran by the camera screaming "Yes, I f**king scored!" this wouldn't be a problem. The problem is that he looked like he was about to headbutt the ccamera/viewer
GreatScot (Rangers)(Footytube Staff) 5 years ago
Its a bit mad that he gets bugger all for a forearm smash into James McCarthy's head, but gets a 2 match ban for swearing! These people definitely do not have their priorities right!
Ant (Liverpool) 5 years ago
What's especially weird is that the ref saw the smash, ignored it, and this ref didn't see the swearing but said he would have given a red card. The FA step in whenever they feel like it, but say their hands are tied at other times. Something is weird about the whole situation, but as I said above, United won't miss him
Jean0987654321 (Manchester United) 5 years ago
Its a joke, I've never seen bans like that in my life. In the NBA, Shaq can curse out the media all he wants and does he get suspended? NO! Take notes, FA. Your on cable, not on PBS Kids or what not

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