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Cristiano Ronaldo: Then And Now
Kafka (Bayern Munchen-A) 3 years ago
Hello footytube! It's been quite a while since I last posted here. To reintroduce myself, I thought I'd followup on my previous post, in which I argued that [C.]Ronaldo, though a terrific player, is rather overrated.
Specifically, I made the following points about Ronaldo:
1. He's a striker, not a winger, and thus his scoring feats are not as impressive.
2. People vastly overrate his scoring ability.
3. He's a talented dribbler, but not one of the greats, largely because he doesn't dribble at the right times.
4. He doesn't come through in big games like other star footballers.
And the fifth point, though not stated explicitly, was implied:
5. He's a selfish player.

I wrote all that two summers ago, coming off the heels of a triumphant Manchester United campaign and a (seemingly) spectacular season by Ronaldo that had many proclaiming him the world's best. When I made those claims, he was still the consensus number 1 player in the world. In the eyes of many, he no longer carries that distinction. So where is he? Do my criticisms still apply to the Ronaldo of Real Madrid? Did they ever? It's time to re-examine the old debate, and see if we can shed light on one of the most famous, and fascinating, players in the world.
(disclaimer: as with the last post, I will use video and statistics where necessary to illustrate points. A quick word on those: they are not meant to be taken as substitutes for watching real matches. No statistic or highlight video will ever capture the infinite nuances and subtleties of an actual match, nor are they meant to. However, they do have one useful function. Using statistics and (to a lesser degree) videos allow us to assess a player objectively using common ground. You may say that Ronaldo's passing is better than anyone else's in the world, based on your having watched every single game he's ever played in live going back to his Sporting Lisbon days. You may insist that this is true. But if I point out that Ronaldo has sixteen passes per game, with a completion rate of of 65%(not actual numbers, for the record), that is truly objective, as long as we agree on what constitutes a pass. By using numbers to supplement observations we lend weight to our claims, and thus give them some validity. So try to consider the statistics and videos I use before dismissing them. You may find they help you understand football more than you ever could otherwise).

1. "He's a striker, not a winger, and thus his scoring feats are not as impressive."
The first of my points is by far the easiest to resolve now. In the past two years, Ronaldo has transitioned fully into a striker role at Real Madrid. As before, he still finds the ball occasionally on the side, but generally only several times a game, and he usually gives the ball up quickly. He does not even average one cross a game in La Liga, and only one long ball a game, further evidence that the days of beating two defenders on the flanks and crossing it in are long gone. Ronaldo is now a true forward.

2. "People vastly overrate his scoring ability".
Back then, this was the claim that angered the most people. How could Ronaldo score 42 goals in a season and still be only "very good" at scoring goals? Likely, this claim appears more incredible now, coming as it does off a season in which Ronaldo scored 53 goals in just 54 appearances. And yet it is a claim that still holds some validity, owing to the following indisputable fact:
Ronaldo takes a lot of shots. More shots,in fact, than anyone else in the world. And it's not even close. It's not even close to being close. This year, Di Natale(28 goals in the league) took 3.2 shots per game. Messi(31) took 3.7, Gomez(28) 2.5, Eto(21) 2.5. And to score his 40 goals, Ronaldo needed 5.6 shots per game. That's a truly incredible amount. To my knowledge, no one in the past ten years has taken five shots per game. In fact; it's possible that no one has even taken four. What this means then, is simple. Ronaldo scores more goals than other players in large part because he takes more shots, a LOT more shots. Keep in mind, also, that Ronaldo plays in, defensively, the weakest league of the top four, and also plays with brilliant passers. For those who read my last post, I think you know what's coming:

Link: www.footytube.com/video/cristiano-ronaldo-all-goal...
Now observe the following:


Keep in mind that both scored approximately the same amount of goals. Keep in mind also who was taking 5.6 shots a game in a diluted league on a team with wonderful passers. Now judge for yourself how brilliant a striker Ronaldo really is. My opinion? One of the top ten forwards in the world, but nothing more.

3. "He's a talented dribbler, but not one of the greats, largely because he doesn't dribble at the right times."
I argued two years ago that Ronaldo, despite mesmerizing talent, is not such a great dribbler, on the basis that he dribbles at the wrong times and when it will do little good(I.E On the sidelines, then passing backwards). Although I don't watch as many Real Madrid games as I did Manchester United, it seems to me that this is still often the case. Too often you see Ronaldo get the ball on the side during a counter attack, only to execute a perfect dribbling move and then pass back. Witness instead a player like Messi or Robben, who will beat a player and then immediately move forward, looking either for a decisive pass or shot. I could be wrong, but it just doesn't seem like dribbling is key element of Ronaldo's game anymore. The statistics show that Ronaldo has 2.2 successful dribbles per game, with a success rate of 50%.(in other words, if Ronaldo attempts a dribble, he has a 50% chance of keeping the ball). Messi has 5.6 successful dribbles per game, with a success rate of 65%. Arjen Robben is 3.9 with 65%. This is not to say that Ronaldo is a bad dribbler by any means. It is merely an indication that he is not a dominant one, at least not on the level of the aforementioned players.

4. "He doesn't come through in big games like other star footballers."
This is probably the hardest claim to verify. Ronaldo, like many other great players, has been very hit-and-miss when it comes to big games. On the one hand, he singlehandedly has saved Real's league campaign time after time this season, scoring big goals to help keep their season alive. He was also excellent in Real's victory over Barcelona in the Copa del Rey. On the other hand, we have his repeated disappearances in champions league matches, his mediocrity(the Copa del Rey aside) against Barcelona, and his inexplicable failures in the national team. Ultimately, it is possible to say only this: as of right now, Ronaldo is not consistently exceptional in big games. Zidane was. Maradona was. The first Ronaldo was. And until Cristiano Ronaldo performs with the consistency of those legends, it will be impossible to put him at their level.

5. "He's a selfish player."
This is almost definitely true. As documented earlier, Ronaldo takes an absurd amount of shots, often from free kick situations which he has almost no possible chance of converting. His pass percentage is a rather bad 76%, in large part because he only passes when he absolutely has to.(at least, this is what I have seen) He insists on taking most every penalty kick and free-kick, displays often childish behaviour after being fouled, and in general comes off as being a self-righteous, arrogant jerk. It is undeniable that he has his modest, honorable side. But it is a side that rarely makes it's appearance on the football pitch. Although he is a very hardworking player, he is also clearly a selfish one, and it is likely that this hurts his team in countless unmeasurable ways.

So that's my argument against Ronaldo. Keep in mind that I still hold him as a footballer of the top rank: he has excellent technique, incredible speed and strength and admirable positioning. I just don't see him as one of the very best in the world.
Thank you for reading, and let me know what you think about Cristiano Ronaldo. Overrated or not?
All feedback is welcome
Juno (AC Milan) 3 years ago
As with your last thread, I agree with most of what you wrote (bearing in mind, the reason I join footytube as a member in the first place is to defend your post), but there's a simple point where I kinda disagree, the scoring feats. You are right in that he and others(Messi included) has change the concept of Wingers, and that they have blurred the line of the difference between an Inverted Winger and a forward. So to the point of whether he's a striker or Winger doesn't matter really anymore (unless your style is a traditional winger and you somehow manage to curl some ridiculous digits into the net), but his scoring feats is still a record by any standards measured. To be scoring 50+ goals and consistently over 30 for the past few seasons in league coefficient that's 2 point for every goal scored , its probably a bit cruel to play down the achievements.

And going point by point, I would wholly agreed with everything else you wrote, but not rating him overrated this time round because we are not taking into the consideration of what he does and how many points he earned for his clubs. And since you viewed him as a top rank footballer in today's footballing world, it would be safe to say you actually rated him well yourself. The point to show now in this thread is only to show that however good he is, he's not perfect as some made him out to be. Would you agree?
Ant (Liverpool) 3 years ago
I remember the original post well, and I thank you for taking the time and effort to make a big follow up post like this. I'm going to move it to the Stands, where it belongs
Kafka (Bayern Munchen-A) 3 years ago
Juno: you are definitely right in that the concept of definite positions such as winger, attacking midfielder, and center forward have in the last ten years become somewhat blurred. However, there are still actual wingers out there(Marin, Ribery, di Maria, etc.) and it is not realistic to compare the responsibilities of Ronaldo with those of these players. I would agree also with you on the scoring issue, if it weren't for Ronaldo's obscene shot taking. Remember that every shot he takes is a shot another player could have taken had he passed. Ozil averaged less than a shot a game, Benzema averaged around two. These are players who, given the chance, might be far more efficient scorers than Ronaldo. And yet, because he is so hell bent on shooting every chance he gets, they are deprived of scoring chances, even when they might be in far better shooting positions than Ronaldo. So I do still think his scoring ability is overrated.
I do agree with you on all your other points, however. Thanks for posting!
Kafka (Bayern Munchen-A) 3 years ago
And thank you Ant for moving this to the stands
Kickandrun (Manchester United) 3 years ago
Hey, I wasn't a member when you posted your original thread. I think it's hard in many respects to argue with your points. Ronaldo is essentially a very selfish player, he holds onto the ball for too long regularly, and often shoots when team mates maybe better placed. However to give him his due's I've also seen him make some excellent assist passes this season. I'm not sure what the exact definition of a dribble is but I have noticed Ronaldo now often uses his pace to shift the ball quickly up the field when unopposed but will lay it off and attempt to get it back in the box. If you look at is goals this year he scored a lot of tap ins but was often involved in the build up.
I think it is somewhat churlish to try and belittle his scoring achievements based on his shot accuracy. He is an exciting player constantly looking to make things happen, he is one of few players in the world capable of changing a game in a second. He is outstanding at what he does and that is simply score goals.
On a side note if Robben could keep himself fit for a season would he enter the elite top 2 of Ronaldo and Messi (arguments aside the 2 best players at individually changing a game IMHO). Will Neymar step up to that level?
Oh and Brazilian Ronaldo best striker of my life time, end of
Kafka (Bayern Munchen-A) 3 years ago
If you as a player take ten shots in a game and score two goals, and I take two shots and score two goals, who is a better player? The first player is Real Madrid, the second is Barcelona. Who has been more successful?

As for Robben: I honestly think that, when healthy, he is even better than Ronaldo and perhaps also on par with Messi. He has the rare ability to single-handedly change games, and he is also one of the few players to have an outstanding record in big games. People who follow Bayern Munich know what I am talking about.
Neymar: really overrated. It's not that he doesn't have the talent; it's that there's no way to tell how much potential a kid has when he's killing teams in Brazil. And the way he acts now, it seems that there is a lot of danger of him turning into the next Quaresma or Giovinco: players with a lot of talent who just couldn't hack it in the top leagues. So I think we need to wait until he moves to Europe before we start talking about his potential.come back in three years and I might have an answer for you.
I don't know about best, but the Brazilian Ronaldo sure was up there. One of the absolute best forwards of all time, without a doubt
Juno (AC Milan) 3 years ago
Here, for Kickandrun, Link: www.footytube.com/forums/footytube-blog/fan-opinio...

The previous thread from Kafka, that has generated one of the most replies in footytube's forum
TheBarcaShow (Footytube Staff) 3 years ago
@Kafka I think that Robben is a great player but I think that he goes missing in too many games.

For example two seasons ago when Robben scored against United to advance. For much of the game he played poorly but he did score the goal.

Does that count as a good game for him or a poor one?
Kafka (Bayern Munchen-A) 3 years ago
Good. Because that's the kind of player he is: he'll get the ball a couple of times, put in some good crosses, play decently-and then he'll win the game for you with something special. I would disagree that he goes "missing" in games, he's just not ever-present, certainly not in the way someone like Messi is. But he's incredibly dominant on the counterattack, and the only time I've ever seen him play badly in a big game other than at the 2010 world cup. Of course, we found out later that he was playing with a hole the size of an apple in his leg.
If there's a weakness with Robben, it's his injury rate. He spends so much time having to readjust because he's been out for a month or two with yet another injury that he never really plays to his fullest. When he's healthy and in top form, though.... He's fantastic.
Just out of curiosity, where would you place him in terms of rank? Top five, ten, etc
TheBarcaShow (Footytube Staff) 3 years ago
I think he would be in the top 10 in forwards for sure I am trying to sort out how I would rate them in my head right now. It takes time for me though.

You are totally right about him being a force on the counterattack. I realize that I am a bit harsh on Robben, types of players like him, Messi, and Aguero who love to dribble at defenders.

You are also right about him being there to win games when given that opportunity. I would definitely agree with what you said about his injury problems because he spends a large part of the season having to get back into rhythm after being out with injury
Kafka (Bayern Munchen-A) 3 years ago
I would be very interested in seeing your top ten forward's list. Would you take into account injuries? How about the overall quality of the team? For example, is a player who plays well on a bad team better than/equal to a player that plays equally well on a bad team? Let me know what you think when you finish coming up with your list
Acphenom (Borussia Dortmund) 3 years ago
You argue your case brilliantly and I completely agree. I've been unimpressed by Ronaldo for quite a while now myself - he did some amazing things for us at Man Utd but when he went to Real he just seemed to become a very good forward, as you say. At Utd he really did score all kinds of goals, from all kinds of ranges, with all kinds of body parts and against all kinds of opponents.

Thing with Ronaldo is he is unquestionably a wonderful asset due to the versatility which the aforementioned diversity of scoring methods implies. But he no longer terrifies opposition like he used to because you rarely see him wow the audience anymore.

In terms of Best Players in the World, I too think he's left that class. To be quite honest, for all the derogatory comparisons, I think Nani has had a better season than Ronaldo. If I had to pick between the 2 I would go with Nani, who has shown far more comfort on the ball and an uncanny vision for a pinpoint cross or incisive pass. Rooney, too, I would put ahead of him.... Sneijder, Tevez, Robben, Xavi, Iniesta, Modric.... And that's only the attacking field. I used to be delighted by the incredulous rumours of his return to Old Trafford but now I'm more ambivalent - I don't think I would be so accomodating of him in an attack that now has Wazza, Chica, Young, Nani and (fingers crossed) Nasri or Sneijder
Merederem (Arsenal) 3 years ago
Nani.... I am not a fan of CR7 but nani is definitely worse than him
Kafka (Bayern Munchen-A) 3 years ago
Unlike Ronaldo, Nani remains a true winger so it's tough to make comparisons. That said, I do think that they are in the same general class. I'd definitely have to do a little research before I agreed 100% with you there. Other than that....completely agree with your post, very well written.
Kimaway17 (Liverpool) 3 years ago
You are 95% right. Yes taking 5. 6 shots is a lot. But you still can not overlook the fact he scored 53 goals in 54 games. Scored 40 goals in the La-Liga which is an all time record. I do not think Hugo Sanchez Di-Stefano Puskas Ronaldo could say they scored 40 goals in one season. Then also assisted 10 goals which is very high if you say Ronaldo is a striker. So no he aint overrated
Kafka (Bayern Munchen-A) 3 years ago
Well, let's put it this way. Ronaldo, as the video above shows, scores most of his goals through finishing. So let's take another forward who scores similarly and make a comparison: Mario Gomez. For those who don't know, Mario Gomez is a tall, slow-footed forward for Bayern Munchen who nevertheless finishes extremely well, especially off of headers. Last season, he scored 28 goals off of 2. 5 shots per game. So if he took 5. 6 shots per game, one could argue that he might score about 63 goals. And that's before adjusting for the five more games Ronaldo played! So you see that efficiency is an important thing
Borg (Manchester United) 3 years ago
The reason Mario Gomez only has 2. 5 shots is because he is a slow footed forward and he needs other players to do the work for him, therefore he doesn't get as many shots
Peteko 3 years ago
One goal in 5. 6 shots is a bad record if you take one shot at a game, But if you are able to shoot at least 10 times per game, then it is irrelevant. It may be proof of his selfishness, but it may also just show self-confidence. After all one does not exclude the other.

Honestly I like Ronaldo. Maybe only because so many people hate him. He is blessed with skills and flair. And really more than selfish he seems to me like self-involved. Like that special kid who plays with himself at the corner of the ground. It is his right foot against his left foot and he keeps the score, murmuring to himself. He is the strange kid that everyone hates, but he is not interested to win them over. He is too focused to see whether his left foot would beat the right one. He even has names for them. Do I need to say more. The guy is a legend
Kafka (Bayern Munchen-A) 3 years ago
You seem to have fallen in love with the myth of Ronaldo. And I'll admit, he certainly has a charisma about him. But by taking so many shots, he hurts his team by not passing when he should
Peteko 3 years ago
You seem to have misread me. I am making a point that self-involved may not necessarily selfishness.

If you see a myth in this, it is not to be confused with the myth of his Real, Portugal or United fans. It is a myth of its own.

For the record, if I were manager I would not buy him, no matter how much cash in my hands
Kafka (Bayern Munchen-A) 3 years ago
I see. But from a playing perspective(as opposed to a personal perspective) isn't taking that many shots selfish in that it deprives other players of shots? There is a finite amount of time in a game, and hence a finite amount of scoring opportunities. If you have ten shots to shoot in a game, do you want them to be off of Ronaldo rockets(with little chance of even being near the net) from 40 meters out or five yard headersfrom Benzema off of Ronaldo cross's? He may be a very humble, down to earth guy off of the field(some of his teammates say as much) but on the field he seems to be pretty selfish when it comes to shooting the ball.
Also, I'm a little confused: you say you like him and that he's a legend but that you would not buy him if you were a manager? I don't quite understand the thinking behind this, could you explain it to me?
Juno (AC Milan) 3 years ago
Yeah, I couldn't take it when he take ludicrous far out shots from 30 40 yards out. Yes, he managed a couple of stunner each year, but wasted 30 others. Sometimes I rather he let the play pan out and wait for a better opportunity than lashing out at goal
TheBarcaShow (Footytube Staff) 3 years ago
Great piece and its hard to argue against anything really.

I think what the shots per game average is to show how efficient of a goal scorer he is and how much of a goal threat he has been.

@Kimaway mayhe none of them have score 40 goals in a season but the rest are written in the history books for their goal scoring exploits as well as being excellent players who weren't as wasteful as Ronaldo is
Kafka (Bayern Munchen-A) 3 years ago
Completely agree on the shots per game point
Zlatan94310 (PSG) 3 years ago
Very good post Kafka! The comparisons between Ronaldo's goal ratio per shots with the other european top scorers are quite interesting. The figures don't lie, but you have to take into consideration the fact that Ronaldo is not a natural #9, he's a winger in the first place. (even though we know that he has quite transitioned into a striker position at Real).

You're right when you're saying that he scored more than the others because he took a lot of shots. That's common sense and there is nothing wrong with that, because in order to score a goal for your team and make it win the game, you better have a go and take shots. However that wasn't enough to win La Liga or show something against Barcelona (his header in the Copa del Rey was anecdotic, when you look at his overall performances against Barca).
That's the number one reason why Ronaldo ain't the Best player. When it comes to big games, the guy is non-existent, transparent, gone.... Spain vs Portugal (wc2010) Greece v Portugal (euro2004) and Barca vs Real matches are perfect examples. Ronaldo hardly touches the ball or get a clear goalscoring opportunity for some reason.

2. People vastly overrate his scoring ability.
Why minimizing his 40 league goals? When he has scored 26 in the previous 09-10 season and 18 in 08-09 with Manchester. That's an improvement. After his 1st two seasons at United, Ronaldo's heading ability and trademark free-kicks progressively appeared to be a serious threat to the opposition, enabling him to score more goals the following seasons. La Liga defenders couldn't keep up this year because he and Messi are just ridiculously too good.


3. It is true that Cristiano doesn't seem to be a ‘dominant dribbler’ who can take on 2/3 players + remain on his feet like Messi or Ronaldo (see video ) and do something amazing. That’s quite weird somehow, because Cristiano Ronaldo is an athlete but he does not quite impose himself enough yet.
Yet, he remains an excellent dribbler who can lead astray his direct opponents and create chances for his partners, he’s unpredictable with his tricks and more importantly he is very quick on his feet. Robben is a decent winger but very predictable and injury prone, in this game consistency, pace and decisive goals matter. When a player is injured no one really cares. Football fans won't pay attention to stuff like "executing a perfect dribbling move and then pass back", while on the other hand the guy keeps scoring and making his team win.


Overall, Ronaldo is currently one of the best players in the World, but has more to prove in order to become the number one. Only time will tell. But you can't take away or minimize what he's achieved so far since he left Sporting Lisboa no matter how. What matters is the outcome.

As far as Neymar is concerned, it’s too early to even mention him until he has shown something across Europe or in this current Copa America; but the young boy has a Huge potential
Kafka (Bayern Munchen-A) 3 years ago
Hello Zlatan94310!
It is true that Cristiano Ronaldo did not start out as a forward, but then again, many great forwards didn't. For example, take Thierry Henry; he played (unsuccessfully) at Juventus as a winger and then transitioned to center-forward at Arsenal with little difficulty. And upon seeing a young Ronaldo at Sporting Lisbon, Jose Mourinho remarked that the boy reminded him of Eric Cantona. So I don't really think you can make excuses for him based on where he used to play: he has been transitioning into the forward position for several years now and is certainly comfortable with the role.
In regards to the scoring percentage: yes, he took more shots, but he scored on a lower percentage of shots than others. That's the important part. It's not important that he took more shots than others, what's important is that he scored less on those shots than he statistically should have. To see what I mean in, look at my responses to Juno, kickandrun and Kimaway17.
2. Sure, it's an improvement, but it's an improvement that comes from taking shots nearly every time he has the ball. La Liga defenders, although they struggle with both players, seem to have a much easier time with Ronaldo, despite his size and strength. Probably because he is more predictable: with Messi, at any given moment he can pass, shoot, or dribble, whereas disproportionately, Ronaldo chooses to shoot.
3. Ronaldo, talent wise, is probably as good or possibly better than Messi. But if he never shows us what he can do, than all we can go on are the matches he plays and statistics, and both suggest that he is quite good but nothing special when it comes to dribbling.
By the way: Robben is almost certainly the best winger in the world at the moment. If you think him decent, can you give me an example of a winger who you find better?

You are right in that what matters in the outcome. And the outcome is that Portugal and Real Madrid struggle every time they go up against high-quality opposition. Is this solely Ronaldo's fault? Of course not. But it is to some degree his fault.
Agreed on Neymar.
Thank you for posting!
Torreshairgel (Real Madrid) 2 years ago
Uuhhhhh.... Yea messi's shot isn't tht great compared to ronaldo.... And messi's weakfoot is even worse
FootyRulz (Chelsea) 2 years ago
Lets not turn this into another messi vs ronaldo debate please...
MUMatt (Manchester United) 3 years ago
I don't necessarily think that shooting the ball 5 or 6 times a match is a bad thing. It generates momentum for your team (granted the quality of the shots). I think it helps the rest of your team by putting more focus onto the player shooting all the time.

Ronaldo is always a threat on the field. He's definitely not overrated but he is incredibly lazy/selfish/large ego. I think it would serve him better if he worked harder (won't happen). I think his dribbling isn't poor, I think it's just lazy. I havent' seen him or madrid play much lately but he does almost nothing off the ball, which hurts him as a player and hurts his legacy I think. If he had the work rate of say Tevez or J. S. Park he would be untouchable. Talent only gets you so far he's lucky he has such an overflowing amount of it
GoldenGolz (Bayern München) 3 years ago
Some of the shots he goes for take AWAY the team's momentum though. Really, there were so many attempts last season that were purely selfish and nowhere near being real opportunities
Bjarni10 (Manchester United) 3 years ago
Ronaldos main problem is that he is a very selfish player. Like in the Super Copa in the second leg. He got himself into a good position to cross the ball but instead he took an shot that would have to perfect to beat the goalkeeper from that angle.

Ronaldo is a quality player but if he was more of a team player he wouldnt just be about the goals. He could set up more goals for his team mates.
If he would become more of a team player then he would be more successful in his career
Donnchadh (Liverpool) 3 years ago
Kafka kudos on the post man, good stuff. The reason I think he is overrated is the big game ghost phenomenon. I was talking to a few people about it, he always seems to disappear in big matches. Great players thrive in those situations, Steven Gerrard especially comes to my mind, scoring late goals in huge games putting his team on his back. Ronaldo doesn't seem to have that quality as you point out Messi does at a club level, neither of them seem to for country. But that issue seems like it will culminate in Rio and Sao Paulo, Brasil, 2014

I agree with most of what you say here Kafka, one thing I am wondering is, in your first post on the subject you say pften you think Ronaldo is only in the top 10 or so, so who do you think is better? It's not a challenge and I am not trying to prove you wrong or anything, just wondering. Here is a tentative list of my top 10(without goalkeepers) as I am just kind of throwing this together on the fly with no research or statistical back up which you seem to promote This is right now too, not factoring in their age(how old or how young) and prospects of the future. I will elaborate more later.

1.)Lionel Messi
2.)Cristiano Ronaldo
3.)Xavi Hernandez
4.)Carles Puyol
5.)Arjen Robben
6.)Vidic
7.)Sammy Eto'o
8.)Wayne Rooney
9.)Luis Suarez
10.)Andres Iniesta

Honorable mention in no particular order: Steven Gerrard, Wesley Sneijder, Bastian Schweinstieger, Michael Essien, Didier Drogba, Kun Aguero, Mat Hummels, Kaka, John Terry, Stevan Jovetic, Alexander Pato, Zlatan Ibrahimovic, Ozil, David Villa, Ashley Cole, Thomas Vermaelen, Robin Van Persie, Dani Alves, Maicon, Marko Marin, Eden Hazard, Mario Gotze, Franck Ribery, Chicharito, David Silva.

Man that was f*****g tough, again not completely concrete I need to do some research to back up my claims, but as it is, it illustrates to me how much things can change in a year or even a season. Fernando Torres would have at least been honorable mention but his form is so bad he doesn't deserve to be on that list. There are many I am leaving out I am sure still with the honorable mentions, but I tried. Aguero can climb the list very quickly, as well as Suarez can keep moving up super fast. Players like Gerrard and Kaka are fading unfortunately, although knowing Stevie G I think he has another four or five years of good football. I am biased towards attackers as I think everyone is, but I got a few defenders on the list. Many Spanish and Barcelona players are on there deservedly, in my eyes, having won the World Cup and champions league final.... Again. I take intangibles into account hugely, but still I don't think you can put anyone but Ronaldo in the number two spot right now. Messi is far ahead of everyone else in my mind, though he could improve on the international level. Anyways Kafka this is what I got, I will build a better argument for my picks here soon, cheers. I would like to see yours if your down
Donnchadh (Liverpool) 3 years ago
Obvious omitions from honorable mentions: Fabregas, Nasri, Lampard, Pirlo, Gareth Bale    Not so obvious: Donovan, Dempsey, Baines,
AlvinSiiHeeYong (Barcelona) 3 years ago
For me, Messi is the best haha
Starcr9 (Real Madrid) 3 years ago
Kafka you piss me off. All you really piss me off. Ronaldo is the best player in the world so is messi. If I were any of you i'd just take that as a human being and be happy were living in their era. These 2 players are better than maradoona and pele. C'mon pele played in bad leagues with terrible keepers and maradonna only scored like 400 gols. Messi and ronaldo have hit there prime each scoring about 200 goals with 7 yrs to go they can easily beat 400 gols if not 1000 scoring in #1 leagues instead of brazil
Donnchadh (Liverpool) 3 years ago
I am very happy to be living in this era, because it is what it is and I was born in this era so I dig it. However in terms of football, I wish it were the 60s or 70s, no diving, revolutions in football with Cruijff and Rinus Michels Ajax and Clockwork Orange, Managers like Shankly, players like George Best, Kenny Dalglish, Beckenbauer, Eusebio, Carlos Alberto, Pele, Garrincha, Gerd Muller, classic players. There were no seats in stadiums you could only stand up and there were probably not that many games on tv so you had to go to the stadium to catch the game, making for a more intimate experience. Money wasn't a big thing, footballers weren't in it for the money, the big money moves during this era were Johan Cruijff to Barcelona for something around 2 million dollars and Kenny Dalglish 440, 000 pounds which today would both probably be worth around 5 mil or something, now it's f*****g ridiculous. And all the endorsement deals to go with it.

Football was more pure than from what I have heard so yes it is awesome to be living in an era, where anyone in the world can watch their favorite club play, and there is the Messiah, and Ronaldo and Gerrard and Xavi and Robben, and Rooney, but it is very biased to say any of them are better than the likes of Maradona, Pele, Garrincha, Cruijff, Best, Di Stefano, Puskas, Eusebio, Beckenbauer, Dalglish, how could we know? It's all a matter of opinion, and Messi and Ronaldo frankly weren't that great in the world cup, which in the past was what football was all about, and really still is. Just that club football and all the money and promotion has more relevance these days. Plus all of the greats have been at their best for big matches, Pele, Maradona, Cruijff, Beckenbauer, Charlton, Di Stefano all of them immense when it really counted, can you say the same for Ronaldo? Not at all, Messi for club definitely, but perhaps not for country so again all a matter of opinion.

And this is a good post from Kafka, so try and have an open mind about it. Ronaldo has some overrated qualities as does Messi, and I am sure Pele did as well, so just take off the blinders when it comes to Ronaldo, clearly you are a fan
TheBarcaShow (Footytube Staff) 3 years ago
If you want to bring just stats into it then I guess its only fair that we say that Rivaldo is the greatest player ever. Not only has he scored over a thousand goals he has some spectacular ones as well.

Anyways, if you truly think that Ronaldo is better then why don't we use stats to prove you wrong? Just read everything above and then you will realize why Kafka is indeed correct
Jogafutebol (Real Madrid) 3 years ago
That was an interesting read but I don't agree with everything you have written. Sorry its a bit long and I'm a quite exhausted so some of it may not be very concise and I might have repeated what others have said....

1).... Ronaldo has shifted more into a striker's role but still plays a large part as a winger. His primary position is a wide player who has the choice of pushing inside and swapping roles with some of his team mates. I think the tactics used by are. Madrid gives Ronaldo more freedom to move around from one side to another and also down the centre. Yes, he isn't a traditional winger but to achieve the goal tally he did last season is phenomenal. Even for a traditional striker it is brilliant and only a few can consistently get such high results. He broke a record that stood for quite some time while racking up a good amount of assists. His scoring feats, I would say, is even more impressive since his role is not defined.

2).... People will see things differently but to me if a player gets a shot at goal, even if it is off target, if the player is confident and has the ability to nail the shot then it is not a waste. Ronaldo takes many shots, true. But he gets into the space that allows him to get a chance at goal. Sure, there have been times when he could have passed it to another player and some of his shots have been very disappointing. But other factors should be considered. We have seen him score from all types of angles and distances. It looks like the tactics and management plays a large part in allowing him to take those chances. Like you mentioned the stats don't always reflect the whole 90minutes and each play by play. Looking back at last season, after Higuain was sidelined, Benzema had many chances on goal but failed to capitalise on those chances. He did gradually regain some of his form but Ronaldo had to lift his game to support the gaps in attack. What I also don't get is that if taking more shot leads to more goals then why doesn't the other great strikers do it? I think its not a simple equation of more shots equals more goals. Sometimes its just a difficult task to even produce 5 shots at goal. Positioning, creativity, creating space for yourself, timing of the shots, consistency and finishing ability among other characteristics provide you with results.

3).... Yes I really think his dribbling game is not all that great. The timing of his dribbles are questionable. He does use step overs and other tricks but he does not depend on his dribbling skills too much. Dribbling plays a huge part in the games of players such as Messi, Ronaldinho and Roben. Like you mentioned, it seems that dribbling is not a big part of his game anymore. He seems to rely more on his speed and positioning to get past the defence. He has proven to be versatile in his approach.

4th.... Yes, he doesn't often shine during big matches but he has proved to be the difference in some important matches. He helped United get to the champions league finals and he also scored the only goal for united during that match. He won the Copa and he kept Madrid's (also United's) hopes alive in the title chase on more than a few occasions. He was a big player in the Euro for Portugal. Its not so much that he was non-existent but rather he has only produced an average performance for his standards and he has never been the hero of a team in a final except those matches mentioned above.

5th.... He is seemingly selfish but he has shown the world that he can create many chances for his team mates. He was one of the top assist makers last season for Real and I believe he also made more assists than Alonso, Iniesta and Xavi. Statistics shows that Manchester benefited from having a player who holds on the ball like he does. United's chances of winning a game without Ronaldo was 62% but when Ronaldo did play the rate was 74%. Bear in mind that managers will allow certain players to hold on to the ball and give them more freedom as part of their tactics.

He is indeed overrated by many of the hardcore supporters who claim him to be the greatest ever and somewhat like a god. But the same goes for almost every other great player that has become a popular icon of the sport. I think the overrating of CR comes mainly from the extremist fans that claim him to be more than what he is really is. Its that extreme and absurd way in which some fans praise him that makes him seem overrated, at least to me. But he is indeed one of the best players of today. I wouldnt put him in the top 10 of all time just yet. He still has much to prove but it looks promising. I think he is developing his game and improving as a team player. Just some of my thoughts on the subject....
ReneAdlerIsGod (Manchester United) 3 years ago
Definitely a heated debate. But your opinion really stands based on if your a Ronaldo fan or not. Me being a Man United fan, I'd probably argue against you 3 years ago, but now I can see where your coming from, although I am pretty sure this article was written just because you really hate ronaldo and want to degrade his reputation
Juno (AC Milan) 3 years ago
You should have read the first post by Kafka. He's speaking point by point, arguing what he thought and deduce from the stats he assembled. He's not hater. Definitely did not put down Ronaldo. If he is, he could have talk about Ronaldo being a diver, being arrogant and not talk anything statistical



   
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