Forums / The Stands: Intelligent Footy Debate
Order: Newest / Oldest
Ballon D'Or Winner?
Sspdcm (Sporting CP Lisbon) 7 years ago
Pepe came out today stating that CR9 should win the Ballon d'Or.... "Cristiano deserves that title. He has won it once and worked hard every day for it. But he also knows that the most important thing is the team. "

Think its guna be extremely close between Messi & CR9, but the most likely winner will probz be Messi due to the fact that Barca won the Treble last season as well as Messi scoring a impressive amount of goals

Lets hear what you people think on the Subject

RickyRossBoss (Benfica Lisbon) 7 years ago
If Man utd won the champions league vs Barca, CR7 wouldve been the winner. UEFA and FIFA go by the book people. There all about titles. Ronaldo won the year before because noone was even NEAR.... Messi stepped it up last year barca treble blah blah its a toss up.... Ronaldo won the league 3 yrs in a row, champions league, top scorer in champions league, EPL, europe in general and in qualifying. Barca can still dance without messi but its starting to look like REAL's shoes don't fit straight without CR9 in the lineup. So you tell me whos more important to their respective teams? Messi is all humble no flash which is why its easy to admire the man.... Replicates maradona at times which is serious business but CR9 got the EPL is his resume.... The fastest, strongest most direct league.... I'd like to see messi take the knocks and tackles that ronaldo took. YA right.... So whos better? LOL.... WHY EVEN compare SUCH greatness people? ? WHY? 2 amazing specimens!
Franboy (Barcelona) 7 years ago
This year is that of messi. Ronaldo is good player but he has already won. People will also want to reward messi. Messi win the Champions league with 1 goal mark in the final, winning the championship and the cup. The European Super Cup and Spanish Supercup so many trophies. So he has a huge advantage over ronaldo
Sspdcm (Sporting CP Lisbon) 7 years ago
Think your correct if Man Utd won the Champions League think CR9 would win, however these individual award takes into a major account if they have won a Major Competition.

An example Fabio Cannavaro in my opinion he shouldn't of won the W. P. Oh. W award in 2006, Thierry Henry had a unforgettable season at Arsenal in 2006. Another was in 2000 when Zinedine Zidane's France played Luis Figo's Portugal beaten in a last min penalty in 2000 Euro Cup. Luis Figo had a great season in 1999-00 however W. P. Oh. W went to Zidane due to France winning the cup.

What I am trying to say does these awards actually tell us the truth of whom been great all season not just winning the Tournaments, because your could argue that a team is made of 11 players and without players like Iniesta and Xavi Messi would just been a normal player look at Argentina Messi has been poor but then again you could argue on Portugal my Home Country CR9 has been more then poor...
Franboy (Barcelona) 7 years ago
Yes it's true trophies play an important role. T henry deserved the Golden Ball but Cannavaro was a world champion
Sspdcm (Sporting CP Lisbon) 7 years ago
Sorry for the Post again I changed the last bit of my post

What I am trying to say does these awards actually tell us the truth of whom been great all season not just winning the Tournaments, because your could argue that a team is made of 11 players and without players like Iniesta and Xavi Messi would just been a normal player look at Argentina Messi has been poor but then again you could argue on Portugal my Home Country CR9 has been more then poor....

Sorry for going off Topic
Kingsickhead (Chelsea) 7 years ago
Yep Sspdcm spot on and that's the way it should be if your play is making you win you a can be the best at anything! Because your game wasnt effective enough to make your team win!
Franboy (Barcelona) 7 years ago
You're absolutely right sspdcm, but the settlement lol. And as usual the attacker is advantaged. Casillas is a great goalkeeper but he never will win the trophy
SexyAmyMUFC (Manchester United) 7 years ago
Yeahhhhh its Messi's....    Though I personally would like it to go to Iniesta.
Franboy (Barcelona) 7 years ago
Iniesta is a very good player but it is not enough media (stars, spectacular people) over a messi, ronaldo, Ronaldihno, zidane, ....  
Blueskiesahead (Chelsea) 7 years ago
Iniesta was also out for half of last season so that doesn't help him much and though he was pivotal for barca, they didn't miss him too much. If messi were gone for that long, you would deffiantly see a difference
SexyAmyMUFC (Manchester United) 7 years ago
Cannavaro won it a few years backpurely by having a good World Cup, regardless of his season prior to that.

But you're right, Iniesta won't get it because he isn't as glamorous as Messi.... Ronaldo....

That's why people like Zidane and Ronaldinho won it times when it should've been someone more humble, like Gerrard in 2005.
Sergio 7 years ago
After last season ill say messi and gerrard. I would like gerrard to win it this year
Hammad (Manchester United) 7 years ago
Hey livi fan.... Stop supporting you're team tht much.... Gerrard do not deserve this award.... Its better to award it to CR9 instead...
Sergio 7 years ago
Why Doesent he derserve it? He didn't get the award giggs won. And what the hell.... Why telling me ronnie pulled his team to the extent gerrard last season? And did he stick to united? Or did he aim for glory my friend.

With gerrard, he would stay in liverpool even after regalation
Sspdcm (Sporting CP Lisbon) 7 years ago
Sorry but you have to give a explanation why Gerrard is a better player then for example CR9, Iniesta, Xavi, Messi    Thanks
ManUK (Manchester United) 7 years ago
Well apparently his stunning start has made him one of the top in the running

Full list: Andrey Arshavin (Arsenal), Karim Benzema (Real Madrid), Iker Casillas (Real Madrid), Cristiano Ronaldo (Real Madrid), Diego (Juventus), Didier Drogba (Chelsea), Edin Dzeko (Wolfsburg), Samuel Eto'o (Inter Milan), Cesc Fabregas (Arsenal), Fernando Torres (Liverpool), Diego Forlan (Atletico Madrid), Steven Gerrard (Liverpool), Ryan Giggs (Manchester United), Yoann Gourcuff (Bordeaux), Thierry Henry (Barcelona), Zlatan Ibrahimovic (Barcelona), Andres Iniesta (Barcelona), Julio Cesar (Inter Milan), Kaka (Real Madrid), Frank Lampard (Chelsea), Maicon (Inter Milan), Lionel Messi (Barcelona), Luis Fabiano (Seville), Franck Ribery (Bayern Munich), Wayne Rooney (Manchester United), John Terry (Chelsea), Nemanja Vidic (Manchester United), David Villa (Valencia), Xavi (Barcelona), Yaya Toure (Barcelona).

Blueskiesahead (Chelsea) 7 years ago
Messi has it hands down. He's won the treble, and even last year when cr9 (cr7 then) won it, messi was a very very close second.... And he didn't even win anything with barca that season. To me messi is so much more consistent and improves the play not only of himself, but of the whole team as he provides far more assists and is more pivotal in build up than ronaldo has ever been. So now that messi has actually helped barca win something (not just something but a historic treble) he will no doubt win it
Amayel (PSG) 7 years ago
3rd in 2007  2nd in 2008  1st In 2009? ...
Blueskiesahead (Chelsea) 7 years ago
Sure is looking that way
Sspdcm (Sporting CP Lisbon) 7 years ago
If you read some of my post.... Why wouldnt it be Iniesta? Or Xavi

1. Consistent, no one is more consistent then Iniesta
2. Improves the play not only for himself, Iniesta and Xavi if you look at every single game by Barca most of the creative, the extra zing will come from Iniesta and Xavi.... Just look at Chelsea and Barca were Chelsea did a perfect plan on Messi who had amazin match and created most chances Xavi and Iniesta....

Not trying to be rude just stating that Iniesta and Xavi are great players everyone talks about Messi but most supporters (putting ma neck on the line) don't see the whole picture of the game just how many goals
Blueskiesahead (Chelsea) 7 years ago
No doubt iniesta and xavi are both phenominal players, and essential parts of barca's lineup.

Messi's: assists: 10
Goals: 38 (7 as a substitute)
Appearances:51 (10 as a substitute)

Iniesta: assists:10
Goals: 5 (1 as a sub)
Appearances:41 (5 as a substitute)

Xavi: assists: 23
Goals: 9 (0 as a substitute)
Appearances: 52 (5 as a substitute)

Now iniesta is clearly out of the race as he hardly helped at all with the copa del rey and only appeared for half the season. No doubting he is still a great player, but for the bolon d'or for this year, he really doesn't have much chance.

Xavi as always is one of the best. 23 assists in one season is no small feat and he was clearly in the middle of everything. However after playing over 500 more minutes than messi in the league, I do believe that messi's stats are more incredible. Xavi definatly played a vital role all season long for barcelona but messi clearly had more of an impact as he scored 7 of the 10 times he appeared as a substitute. Quite a statistic there. Now I'm not one for statistics personally, so just go watch some highlights of barca's game and it isn't difficult at all to see who the most spectacular person on their team is
Sspdcm (Sporting CP Lisbon) 7 years ago
Come on how can you tell a great player by these stats, how would Franz Beckenbauer or Fabio Cannavaro would win if it was based on Assist, Goals, Appearances.... Well as your good at statistics maybe your could find some real stats....

1. Losing Ball
2. Winning Ball
3. Passing Percentage
4. Heading Percentage

Something like these would help on choosing who would be better

(p. S soz if I was bit rude :])
Blueskiesahead (Chelsea) 7 years ago
Well in my oppinion cannavaro didn't deserve to win it anyways. But as I said I'm not one for stats. I think they can be very very misleading, however they do give some insight as to what a player is capable of. And as I said, if you watch a barcelona game, who is it that produces the most magic? Normally, its messi. Yes xavi shows us what a true passer of the ball can do, but messi has shown us time and again that he is more than just a one dimensional player (watch barcelona's match against mallaga and you'll see more perfectly placed through balls by messi than by xavi, not saying this happens often just making a point) who can not only dribble past 4 players at a time but also make precision passes and beautiful long shots. Xavi can do both of those last two, and is better than messi in terms of passing no doubt, but the tie breaker is messi's dribbling ability and his knack for being in the right place, at the right time and being able to put the ball into the back of the net consistently
Sspdcm (Sporting CP Lisbon) 7 years ago
Well we agree with something Fabio didn't deserve to win it just because Italy won the world cup.... However I'm not saying that Messi produces magic but just stating that stats can be misleading.... Ok how bout a different approach how would a defender ever win a ballon d'or or world player award if it's based on the fact who scored goals or passes for example Buffon what does he have to do? What I am trying to say don't your think the award system only helps the players that score more goals?

But I Know I know messi will win both awards, but I would love if Iniesta or even Xavi due to the fact Barca can sometimes be lost in the middle oh the park without both
Blueskiesahead (Chelsea) 7 years ago
I do agree with you at times the awards can be given unfairly since again, I agree that they look to much into these kinds of statistics, but there are certain players out there that you watch, and you know they are making a difference. You don't need stats, or youtube clips, you just need to watch one game to be able to say "this player is something special. " it may not be a fact, but everyone can see it in players like ronaldo, gerrard, messi, canna (few years back), zidane, ronaldo, you name it. In this case, you can see that messi is the most spectacular player on the pitch today (though ronaldo has been playing great for madrid
Sspdcm (Sporting CP Lisbon) 7 years ago
True totally agree with you that messi is somethin special, but come on you can't give an award just because you think a player is special, stats is the only away a playe can be measured.... On thing is true messi will win it due to winning the treble....

However don't you think Messi has some comptition with Ronaldo, you do know the onli reason he was poor last season compare to previous (mount of goals scored) was because he didn't wana play for Man Utd.... But he is having a great season so far

Hope he can continue and bring it to our national team aswell as Messi
Blueskiesahead (Chelsea) 7 years ago
Yea but in my experience goals arent everything. If you were to combine all the goals messi has created (not just the assists, but the ones where he worked out the space, dribbled past players, etc. Only to pass the ball off to someone else for them to collect the assist) assisted, and scored I'm sure you would have something close to how much ronaldo has done. No doubt both are fantastic and there is something special with both of them, but last season messi was clearly better, no matter what the reason. Maybe next seasons winner will be closer though with the way ronaldo is playing at real
Amayel (PSG) 7 years ago
Messi will win the "Ballon D'or" !
Like Fran said he won everything possible with is team and more than that he sold and sell us "Dream" and that's a point you can't forgive. He is nowadays on an offensive plan the best player of the world, he can make the difference on his own when he want from almost everywhere on a field, We all agree to say that Messi Remind us Maradonna (despite I Was to youg to saw him played, I saw some video of him like you I suppose) and that's something wonderful !
He's game win in maturity because he's less individual whereas he knows that he can make the difference alone !

Cristiano Ronaldo made a good season but it was not enoughin comparison with Messi's work and we saw that during the last UEFA Champions League, Messi scored, Ronaldo did nothing !

Gerrard, Iniesta and Lampard, Zlatan Ibrahimovic were very sharp last season, So they will be in the top 10 for sure !
Blueskiesahead (Chelsea) 7 years ago
So true about him being alot like maradona. Only difference is that I don't think messi is quite as tempermental nor does he have as big a head as maradona did
Sspdcm (Sporting CP Lisbon) 7 years ago
Hey thanks for the post, however you could say that Maradona with very similar to Messi, however the bit were 'Amayel' has gone wrong on is that 'he can make the difference on his own when he want from almost everywhere on a field'.... Well lets look at Argentina, Messi Where? .... Now you could argue that Maradona was never a coach in the First Place however that why you normally have good coach around him which he does Carlos Bilardo the 1986 FIFA World Cup coach for Argentina.... But back to my argument is that isn't Messi as only as good as the people around him that make him look amazing.... The name that comes into mind is Xavi or Iniesta?
Blueskiesahead (Chelsea) 7 years ago
Some might argue though that messi is played out of possition though (not that I believe that makes much difference to a player of his quality). My arguement for that is that he doesn't get the ball. If the midfield can't provide him with the ball how can he do anything. Not only that but teams can put 2-3 men on messi since no one else seems to be capable of anything under maradona. No only that but if you watched him under previous managers, he has done very very well for argentina. Just look at the u20 world cup he participated in or the copa america
Sspdcm (Sporting CP Lisbon) 7 years ago
Oh exactly so point is correct without xavi or iniesta.... Messi couldn't do anything? Without that provider in the team Messi wouldn't be able to what he does best run at people.... Just look at Chelsea when hey did a job on him he wasn't even seen throughout he wasn't even seen throughout he match.... Players like Zidane and Figo knew how to over come this.... But if corse this comes with time and experience.... But he is a great talent but like everythink he is...
Blueskiesahead (Chelsea) 7 years ago
I agree with almost everything you said there. He can still run at people when he does have the ball, it just doesn't happen as often since he doesn't get the ball as often. But yes he has alot of learning to do and if he continues to improve, which I'm sure he will as he seems to have a very good attitude, I think he could become one of the greatest ever footballers.

Ps. He actually caused us a few problems even though bosingwa and cole did excelent marking jobs on him. Don't forget that he was the one who assisted that iniesta goal. May have looked easy but he had quite a few options available (cross, dribble since he had space, shoot) but he chose the right one
Sspdcm (Sporting CP Lisbon) 7 years ago
True he is still young.... Hopefulli it will be a great clash between Messi & Ronaldo for many years....

Well it was a bit of luck that Iniesta scored but it was a great goal and a great Football Moment.... But cross don't think so.... Messi isn't on for crossin the ball much and from his position don't think he would cross.... Another dribble and shoot.... How many players was on him, thing to do was passed.... So technically he didn't have a few available options....

P. S wasnt trying to be rude....
Blueskiesahead (Chelsea) 7 years ago
Messi crosses when he sees the opportunity. Look at ibra's header from a few weeks ago. Messi was in the same relative position when he crossed the ball to ibra as he was when he passed to iniesta. And when he did pass the ball he had no one on him.

Anyways I think that already this clash between messi and ronaldo is absolutely phenominal. Both are playing well right now and I think its sort of a competition between the two at the moment. They're both scoring goals like never before (consistently and beautifully) and have been relentless going forward. And by the way don't worry, I never took it as you being rude. I like a good old argumentative discussion
Hammad (Manchester United) 7 years ago
Ofcourse it will be Messi...
Rockerr (Liverpool) 7 years ago
There is no doubt.... Its goin to be messi!  He has won both uefa and la liga with barca so...
Theshid (Liverpool) 7 years ago
You're right it's not even a question Messi will be the winner even though players like Iniesta and Xavi are important to Barca it seems that the Ballon d'or often goes to a player with a offensive mentality so for me its messi and he will have no competition because he was the best player by far last season and even this season he's doing great. It's too bad that he can reproduce his club performance with his country but he's still young the day will come and its not easy to combine the 2 anyway
Sspdcm (Sporting CP Lisbon) 7 years ago
Agree 100% these award favor more attack minded players, players like Buffon who has been greet in past season never won these awards I think correct me if I am wrong that only 1 go ever won an award yashin I think not sure need to look it up....

Ok how about look it at this way.... He doesn't produce his magic for the national team due to he players around him?
Pragathish (AC Milan) 7 years ago
Ronaldinho!.... Haha just jokin....
Messi for sure.... No doubt.... 'cause he's in barca.... The whole team looks like a world XI team!
Jman008 (Manchester United) 7 years ago
I am a huge Cristiano Ronaldo fan but Messi will most definitely get the award this year. If Manchester United had won the Champions league last season, then no matter what, Ronaldo would have won it but because Barcelona won the Champions League, won La Liga and won another trophy, most people would say the it was mostly due to the great performance of Messi. My bets would have been on Torres winning it but if Liverpool do not win the league or go into the final of the Champions league, then chances of Torres ever winning the award will be slim because currently I think [C.] Ronaldo, Messi and Torres are the best 3 players in the world. Keep an eye on Wayne Rooney
Yamsy (Liverpool) 7 years ago
Messi for it, of course, he's just had such a great season, with a treble, scoring in the UCL final, etc.... It's all worked out for him....
Ronnie good, not better....
Gerrard great, not as great....
Inesta, maybe 2 years later....
My list would be 1. Messi 2. Gerrard 3. Ronnie 4. Inesta 5. Eto'o
Amayel (PSG) 7 years ago
Why do you think Ronaldinho will be in the top 5?
Blueskiesahead (Chelsea) 7 years ago
I don't think ronnie was quite that good last season. In fact I think lamps was better than him last season
Ben (Arsenal) 7 years ago
I think/i hope he means Ronnie as in [C.] Ron. But yeah Yamsy knows better.
Jman008 (Manchester United) 7 years ago
How come no one has Fernando Torres in their list, look at the talent and the amount of goals he scores. I know its mostly because if Liverpool don't win anything, people would say that he shouldn't win the award but the guy has as much goal scoring talent as Eto and Gerrard do. He might not win this year but I definitely believe he can be one of the contenders in the future
Blueskiesahead (Chelsea) 7 years ago
He also had an injury plagued season last year and was thus, not quite as spectacular as many other players who have been mentioned. Expect him to be in the running next year though if he can stay fit
Yamsy (Liverpool) 7 years ago
Thank you Ben, you know me best here!
Duh, of course I mean Cristiano Ronaldo as Ronnie, if I was mentioning Ronaldinho, I would type Dinho....
And Torres wasn't exactly on top form last season, but this year he's on fire!
Yogan (Chelsea) 7 years ago
Well I don't really like to compare these two (Ronaldo and Messi) on goals because they basically play different positions. If the Ballon d'Or was for goals from a certain position then Messi easily but with Ronaldo coming into attack more and coming forward a lot more I think that he could win it. Messi is a great player, as they both are but they don't cross a lot and aren't really wingers. It is weird though that both their official positions are wingers and they are the most probable two to win it because they both score a lot of goals. But of course there is also Iniesta and Xavi and Kaka etc. So it will surely be a tough year for all of the great players in Europe
Aliko (Barcelona) 7 years ago
Please don't forget Torres
Franboy (Barcelona) 7 years ago
Remember that the trophy has a lot in the classification of the Golden Ball. (example henry had lost in 2006 because cannavaro world champion). This year messi will win 100% because it is good, people like him, he has to win everything (Spanish championship, spain cup, champion's league, Spanish Supercup and European Supercup) How do you lose it? It is impossible to lose with such a result
Blueskiesahead (Chelsea) 7 years ago
Don't forget that he was also the champions league top scorer last season. Quite the resume
Franboy (Barcelona) 7 years ago
Lol it's true, it is about winning!
Blueskiesahead (Chelsea) 7 years ago
To all those who think that messi should not win it since others on his team deserve it more, let me ask you this. Why does every team feel the need to stick 2 or 3 players on messi every match? They don't do it to xavi, they don't do it to iniesta, and they never did it to eto'o. And don't forget, that even when he has these 2 or 3 players marking him he still manages to cause trouble. The only time I have ever seen him almost completely marked out of a game was against my blues when bosingwa and cole did god-like marking jobs. Brilliant by the two full backs. But other than that, when have you seen that done to any other player last year and still see the amount of trouble caused
Sspdcm (Sporting CP Lisbon) 7 years ago
Well see it this way then.... How does Messi get the ball to his feet? By a 'Play Builder' Xavi, Iniesta so on.... Why don't managers just block the circulation of the ball? Well that hard to do that because you will lose formation and also many 'Play Builder' came deep to collect the ball so it tends to be difficult to stop that so the only way is to sit in deep and man mark.... That the main reason why teams don't double up on Xavi or Iniesta
Franboy (Barcelona) 7 years ago
The world of football always reward players who make the show. Messi, Xavi, Iniesta, alvesand pique deserves the Golden Ball. Whole team of Barcelona deserves the Golden Ball because we won everything. But messi is the show and score goals. Messi is in the hearts of fans. Messi is young, he finished 3rd in 2007, 2nd in 2008 and it will be 1st in 2009
Aliko (Barcelona) 7 years ago
The 30-man shortlist:

Lionel Messi (Barcelona)
Maicon (Inter Milan)
Andres Iniesta (Barcelona)
Diego (Juventus)
Zlatan Ibrahimovic (Barcelona)
Franck Ribery (Bayern Munich)
Thierry Henry (Barcelona)
Edin Dzeko (Wolfsburg)
Xavi (Barcelona)
Yoann Gourcuff (Bordeaux)
Yaya Toure (Barcelona)
Andrey Arshavin (Arsenal)
Iker Casillas (Real Madrid)
Cesc Fabregas (Arsenal)
Cristiano Ronaldo (Real Madrid)
Didier Drogba (Chelsea)
Karim Benzema (Real Madrid)
Frank Lampard (Chelsea)
Kaka (Real Madrid)
John Terry (Chelsea)
Luis Fabiano (Sevilla)
Steven Gerrard (Liverpool)
David Villa (Valencia)
Fernando Torres (Liverpool)
Diego Forlan (Atletico Madrid)
Nemanja Vidic (Manchester United)
Samuel Eto'o (Inter Milan)
Wayne Rooney (Manchester United)
Julio Cesar (Inter Milan)
Ryan Giggs (Manchester United)
Aliko (Barcelona) 7 years ago
Note: Yoann Gourcuff the only one who represents the French Ligue 1   Franck Ribery and Edin Dzeko for the German Bundesliga
Blueskiesahead (Chelsea) 7 years ago
Arshavin was brilliant last season. Too bad he couldn't help arsenal win any silverwear otherwise I believe he would be in pretty close contention for this award
Juno (AC Milan) 7 years ago
If Messi don't win this season, I don't see why Ronaldo should win last season. Messi basically does everything right last season

Kick4Life - changing lives through football