Forums / The Stands: Intelligent Footy Debate
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Balkan Affairs
Macedonian (Napoli) 3 years ago
Velja

This draw format from 1 to 8 placed in their national league.
Divided on prequalifying rounds Group Stages & Finals
6 Ex YU Football Federation 8 teams total of 48 teams. Used last year 2010/11 season as example from each Ex YU States.
I think this the best possible option for all big or small clubs and every Nation has representative in group stage also better leagues can have 3 or 4 representatives.
Also it can be squeeze in without disturbing national Leagues and Euro Leagues.

Pos Monte Negro RANK
1 Mogren (see) 2. 275
2 Budućnost Podgorica 2. 03
3 Rudar 1. 78
4 Zeta 1. 03
5 Mladost Podgorica
6 Dečić
7 Grbalj
8 Lovćen



Pos Chroatia RANK
1 Dinamo Zagreb (see) 20. 22
2 Hajduk Split 6. 224
3 rnk Split
4 Cibalia 3. 724
5 Inter Zaprešić
6 Karlovac
7 Slaven Belupo
8 Osijek




Pos Bosnia RANK
1. Borac Banja Luka (see) 2. 324
2. Sarajevo 3. 32
3. Željezničar 2. 82
4. Široki Brijeg 2. 82
5. Olimpik
6. Sloboda
7. Zrinjski 3. 82
8. Zvijezda



Pos Serbia RANK
1Partizan (see) 15. 85
2Red Star 9. 35
3Vojvodina 3. 85
4Rad
5Spartak Zlatibor Voda 3. 85
6ofk Beograd 3. 85
7Sloboda Point Sevojno
8Javor Ivanjica




Pos Slovinia RANK
1 Maribor (see) 4. 224
2 Domžale
3 Koper 2. 224
4 Olimpija 1. 474
5 Gorica 2. 224
6 Rudar
7 Triglav
8 Celje


Pos Macedonia RANK
1 Škendija (see) 1. 041
2 Metalurg 1. 29
3 Renova 2. 29
4 Rabotnički 4. 04
5 Sileks
6 Turnovo
7 Teteks 2. 04
8 Bregalnica Štip



Teams entering in this round Teams advancing from previous round
First qualifying round (24 teams)
(A)5 placed teams Against 8 placed teams
(be) 6 placed team against 7 placed teams


Match round one
1 Mladost Podgorica VS Osijek
2 Lovćen VS Inter Zaprešić
3 Dečić VS Slaven Belupo
4 Grbalj VS Karlovac
5 Olimpik VS Javor Ivanjica
6 Zvijezda VS Spartak Zlatibor Voda
7 Sloboda VS Sloboda Point Sevojno
8 Zrinjski vs ofk Beograd
9 Gorica VS Bregalnica Štip
10 Celje VS Sileks
11 Rudar VS Teteks
12 Triglav VS Turnovo


Second qualifying round (24 teams)
(A) Winners Against 3 and 4 teams from national league
12 winners from the first qualifying round


Match round two
1 WINNER VS Renova
2 WINNER VS Rabotnički
3 WINNER VS Olimpija
4 WINNER VS Koper
5 WINNER VS Zeta
6 WINNER VS Rudar
7 winner vs rnk Split
8 WINNER VS Cibalia
9 WINNER VS Željezničar
10 WINNER VS Široki Brijeg
11 WINNER VS Rad
12 WINNER VS Vojvodina

Third qualifying round (12 teams)
Winners second qualifying round
12 winners from the second qualifying round

Round 3 match match
Match 1 round TWO winner 1 vs 4 round TWO winner
Match 2 round TWO winner 2 vs 5 round TWO winner
Match 3 round TWO winner 3 vs 6 round TWO winner
Match 4 round TWO winner 7 vs 8 round TWO winner
Match 5 round TWO winner 9 VS 10 round TWO winner
Match 6 round TWO winner 11 vs 12 round TWO winner

Round 4
Forth qualifying round (6 teams)
Winners third qualifying round
6 winners from the second third round
Match 1 winner VS match 2 winner
Match 3 winner VS match 4 winner
Match 5 winner VS match 6 winner


Group stage(16 teams) 4 Groups* 4 teams
6 champions from associations
6 runners-up from associations
3 winners from round 4 qualifying round
1 round 4 loser WITH THE BEST GOAL diference
Used Euro club ranking to place them in Barrel rank High to low

Pos barell 1 rank
1 Dinamo Zagreb (see)20. 22
1 Partizan (see)15. 85
2 Red Star9. 35
2 Hajduk Split6. 224

Pos barell 2 rank
1 Maribor (see)4. 224
2 Sarajevo 3. 32
1 Borac Banja Luka (see)2. 324
1 Mogren (see)2. 275

Pos barrel 3 rank
2 Budućnost Podgorica 2. 03
2 Metalurg 1. 29
1 Škendija (see)1. 041
2 Domžale

Barrel 4
Round 4 winners
Round 4 winners
Round 4 winners
Round 4 loser WITH THE BEST GOAL diference


This example how will look like if played this season 2011/12

Group 1
1 Dinamo Zagreb (see)20. 22
2 Maribor (see)4. 224
3 Budućnost Podgorica 2. 025
4 round 4 winners

Group 2
1 Partizan (see)15. 85
2 Sarajevo3. 32
3 Metalurg1. 29
4 round 4 winners

Group 3
1 Red Star9. 35
2 Borac Banja Luka (see)2. 324
3 Škendija (see)1. 041
4 round 4 winners

Group4
1 Hajduk Split 6. 224
2 Mogren (see)2. 275
3 Domžale
4 round 4 loser with the BEST GOAL diference


Knockout phase (8 teams)
4 group winners from the group stage
4 group runners-up from the group stage

Quarter-finals
Match 1 A Group Winner - be Group Runner-up
Match 2 be Group Winner - A Group Runner-up
Match 3 see Group Winner - D Group Runner-up
Match 4 D Group Winner – see Group Runner-up

Semi Final
S Final 1 Q final 1 - Q final 2
S final 2 Q final 3 - Q final 4

Finals s final 1 - S final 2



First qualifying round
23–24 June 2010
2–3 July 2010
Second qualifying round
7–8 July 2010
14–15 July 2010
Third qualifying round
21-22 July 2010
23–24 July 2010
Fourth qualifying round
11–12 August 2010
18–19 August 2010

Group stage
Match day 1 17–18 September 2010
Match day 2 12–13 October 2010
Match day 3 27–28 October 2010
Match day 4 17–18November 2010
Match day 5 9–10 February 2011
Match day 6 16–17 February 2011

Quarter-finals
30–31 March 2011 6–7 April 2011

Semi-finals
20–21 April 2011 27–28 April 2011

Final
14 May 2011 at Marakana Stadium, Belgrade

So what is your opinion of this format
VeljaSrbin (FK Partizan Beograd) 3 years ago
Great organizational skills Macedonian.

I do believe that in order for regional league (in whatever format) to be effective, all countries involved would have to drop their leagues to 12 clubs most.

I do not see anything wrong with your proposition, but I still believe league format would benefit football more. I would enjoy watching regional league in this format though, it would be interesting
Macedonian (Napoli) 3 years ago
Velja
If you have Balkan league has to be very small max 12 Clubs due has to be played in mid week due clubs must play National League Europe and have free windows weeks for national teams football and summer and winter brake doing this will benefit the big clubs only.

You can have bigger league only possible if Ex YU States give up their spots in Europe and to go to the original proposal Balkan Premier League this will benefit big but also small clubs.

Knock out competitions is only way you can involved big and small clubs and has less rounds
Macedonian (Napoli) 3 years ago
Velja  
VeljaSrbin (FK Partizan Beograd) 3 years ago
I agree with your statement Macedonian. If regional league would have league format, there should not be more than 12 clubs. Which is why I believe there should be few divisions of regional league as well. I was thinking about system where matches between clubs from same countries would count as valid for regional and domestic league (this way you would have Partizan and Red Star play two matches per season, but results would count for both competitions). You would lower the number of matches this way, and would keep number of derby matches at two per season.

I do not want you to get me wrong, I think your format would work perfectly and be a quality competition without doubt. Although I do believe that having all top division clubs from six Yugoslavian states involved in regional leagues would benefit overall quality of football more (I am aware this might be just my Utopian dream)
Macedonian (Napoli) 3 years ago
Velja no way any federation will allow those matches to be valid for two leagues and is TV right involved sponsors and so on can’t be done due legal reasons due money profits Balkan League will be separate entity to national football associations.
I will go step further then you give up that louse 3 round of euro league to have strong regional league but I don’t think that will ever happen to mush –stakes and interest involved.
Only reasonable solution is knock out competition where small clubs will get chance to play against local giants which will make stadiums to fill up.
League of 12 clubs will have success but
If you form another division of 12 clubs that want be profitable and sustainable with out top guns I wouldn’t go watch that sort of league will not be a lot different in quality from cur-rent national’s leagues
VeljaSrbin (FK Partizan Beograd) 3 years ago
I would disagree with you about no one being willing to watch second division of regional league. Quality of the football would be on a much higher level than in domestic leagues, and that would attract more people to watch matches of these teams, than matches against some weaker domestic sides.

As far as finances for second division, it will most likely not make a lot of money, or make any money at all. In my opinion, regional FA (or however you would call it) should split budgets in order to finance second division as well, because it would with no doubt raise quality of football among smaller clubs and keep them competitive with the giants.

I would have Balkan FA organized as an non for profit organization. Their main goal would be regulating and financing expenses of the regional competition (division 1 and 2, and in years expanding to four divisions if possible - as I proposed in several posts earlier). Basically Balkan premier league would financially carry along second division, but for a greater cause.

So in the first season, regional FA would cover traveling and organization expenses for 1st and 2nd regional division clubs. Remaining of the budget available should be shared as a prize money (probably not much in first couple of seasons). Clubs would get to keep income from ticket sales for each match.

In order for idea I have in mind to work, there should be a general consensus among national FA's and clubs that regional league primary goal is raising quality and competitiveness of football in our region, and not financial profit. With the time, quality of football will rise, which would cause larger fan base of the league and increase in attendance, which will cause bigger sponsors to kick in and rise of the TV rights income, which will cause regional league budget to grow. Than we could turn to making regional league a more financially profitable competition
Macedonian (Napoli) 3 years ago
Velja
Yes Balkan FA can be non profit organisation.
But
Tell me a good reason big clubs of Ex YU States will agree to play in Balkan association which will finance clubs in lower league.
It is obvious that league will not be self sustainable.
If first division is financing second want be a lot of financial gain for the big clubs. Will double the expenses and half the profits of big clubs.
(which will mean they have to play for no financial or little gains for the clubs)
You are too young to remember In EX YU Government was financing the sport which is not the case anymore leagues and clubs must self efficient.
No one will by TV rights from second division that league want be any major sponsors also clubs are pore want create big interest to attract a lot of spectators.

Not opposing this because is not good idea just being realistic.
For time been hopefully debates like this will open the minds and hearts to politician in each EX you football Association and will come up with some sort of competition regardless of the format.
But as starting point knock out completion as described above my opinion is the best option.
Which will involve small clubs also everyone has representative final stages but also it has competitive spirit and better soccer nations from former ex Yu will have 3 or even 4 clubs in group stages.
I did some basic costing and can be financed with out to much difficulties.
Will benefit big & small clubs.
Playing schedule in national and Euro Leagues want be affected.
Ueafa will not oppose this they will support because will strength the football in this region and their profits want be affected at all.
Will have financial gain to all clubs which take part as longer you stay in competition more you benefit you gain.
VeljaSrbin (FK Partizan Beograd) 3 years ago
Reason for giants to accept less financial benefits from the regional league itself (at its beginnings) would be a greater picture here. If you create an environment where smaller clubs would have chance to play more quality matches as well, it will bring to the rise of overall quality of football, and even lead to stronger domestic competitions. With more quality matches over the year giant clubs will be more competitive on the European scene (champions league and Europa league) where big money really is.

As I said, everybody would have to look at the big picture here and not just think how to make quick money. But just having giants play regional league would increase their finances, because club sponsorships will be bigger due to playing more commercial competition than domestic leagues. So basically clubs would be just giving up prize money from the league itself in order to create more competitive football environment, both on regional and domestic level, which will in long term benefit them enormously
Macedonian (Napoli) 3 years ago
Velja
What you saying in prefect world will be perfect solution but is far from that.
If some body can convince big four to give up their profits to help small clubs I will be surprise to me.
Human nature is greed I am skeptical will ever happen.
If clubs they ever play in this sort of League will be for more money noting else
Knock out competition is involving almost every club from national first division.
If national leagues are 12 clubs which means bottom two get relegated 9 & 10 play with 3 & 4 placed from second division for survival. So only 8 clubs which are in first league take part of the Balkan Super League. Which is still good percentage.

To me make sense you start small then grow bigger if is need for that.
Must take as less risk possible to avoid failure
Peteko 3 years ago
Macedonia, you kill me. Lol. Great details man
VeljaSrbin (FK Partizan Beograd) 3 years ago
Macedonian, I totally agree with you that greed is in a human nature, but it also disappoints me that we began to accept that and just live on.

I think you are totally wrong when saying that finances would be the only reason clubs would play regional league. I mean essentially it is, but there would be much more money in sponsorships, ticket sales and TV rights (which with my idea clubs would keep), than potential prize money from the league itself, especially in the early beginnings.

I am aware that most of the clubs would be included with the knock out competition, but downside is that some of the clubs will play just couple of matches before eliminated. In my opinion perfect solution is to provide them much more quality matches throughout the year
Macedonian (Napoli) 3 years ago
Velja you just answer your dilemma.

Sponsorship for big clubs will be better regardless which format will be played
(So they don’t need second division for that)
TV rights money will be the same they don’t need second division for that
Ticket sales any way is going to club hosting the game
So by adding second division you only doubling expenses and taking profits from big clubs
Where is inceptive big club to share profits will small clubs?
The big clubs they don’t need them small clubs they are the week side in negotiations they will be only to fill spots and live with hope one day will develop generation which will reword the club with title then sell the whole team and start again.
If ever some sort of regional competition is formed major players will big clubs and the rest will be happy if they can get just the bit of the action.

If ever this league will be played is not because of nostalgia reason to EX Yu will be for first Money and under that term comes all TV rights sponsors and ticket sales merchandise is all money grab as much more you can mate.
After all that will become the whole picture the football in general in this region.
VeljaSrbin (FK Partizan Beograd) 3 years ago
I feel like we are going in circles here.

Reason for second division to exist is to have smaller clubs have guaranteed full season of quality matches, which will increase level of football among lower rated clubs. This would also reflect on better quality of domestic competitions, which will raise overall competitiveness in both regional and domestic leagues. This fact would benefit giants in a long run more than prize money from league they would receive, because with more quality matches over the season they would become more competitive on the European scene - champions league and Europa league
Macedonian (Napoli) 3 years ago
Velja
You haven’t convince me
I think will be even harder to convince big clubs to give up their possible profits so they can help development of the small clubs so they then can have better opposition.
Your idea is good but I don’t think will be practical to implement.
Specially in new competition. May be? After couple seasons when all settles down & if is need then will expend.
If any big clubs ever agrees to play extra matches for small or any major financial benefit from that.
Why they will join this competition?
Just to create extra headache.
They will need bigger fond of players to cover injuries from those extra matches played extra security for the visitors and all adds to time and human resources.
Only will do all this if is excellent financial deal for them.
Biggest revenue for clubs comes from TV Rights. Which is under control of federation and that is the main generation for prize money for the league.
Then is leagues sponsors and rest.

However we have different views on things.
You are looking what is the best possible outcome in perfect world.
I have different view to create the best possible outcome. In real world.
To be realistic so can be implemented looking true numbers & business model which can be sustainable.
Besides big clubs which will benefit finally like previously agreed soccer fans will get to watch better matches and that will improve football in general in the region.
To have strong league or country or biasness you will need couple strong leaders so the rest can follow and also try to overcome them so they can become leader.
Same ex Yu league you had big four then 3 to 6 teams all time there but just bit short short but sometimes they can surprise and the rest just to feed on crumbs what was left.
Same is in Europe is only about 10 teams which you will expect to reach final every season very really you get surprise speciality in today’s open market economy.





Macedonian (Napoli) 3 years ago
Friendly: Shkendija - Politehnica Timişoara 3:2
Shkendija recorded a friendly victory against Politehnica Timişoara who finished second in the Romanian top division last season.

Shkendija played their second friendly today and recorded a 3:2 victory over Romanian club Politehnica Timişoara. All three goals were scored by Ferhan Hasani. The 21 year old Hasani opened the scoring in the 10th minute with a shot from about 14 meters. Just before halftime, with the score tied at 1:1, Shkendija was awarded a penalty and Hasani converted the penalty to give his team a narrow lead going into the break. Hasani was the best player on the field and remained dangerous in the 2nd half as he hit the post on a free kick from about 30 meters in the 54th minute. Two minutes later, after some sloppy defending, the ball found Hasani inside the area who then chipped the ball over the opposing keeper for a 3:1 lead. The Romanian club cut the lead to 3:2 in the 88th minute but Shkendija was able to hold on to the victory.

The first friendly for Shkendija during their preparations in Austria was against Slovak team Košice on 30 June 2011 and they lost that game 3:1. They are preparing for their match-up against Partizan in the second qualifying round of the UEFA Champions League. The first leg is away to Partizan on 13 July 2011 with the return leg on 19 July 2011 to be played in the Filip II Arena in Skopje.
VeljaSrbin (FK Partizan Beograd) 3 years ago
There seems to be a problem with Skendija registering players for UEFA competitions. As I understood they are trying to do registration through Tetovo FA, but Macedonian national FA is not accepting it because they do not consider FA of Tetovo as legit body. Officials from Skendija even came out with the statement that they will not play Partizan, if this issue is not resolved.

Only in Balkans!

Peteko 3 years ago
Maybe one of you guys should go to the footytube team sections of Slovenia, Bosnia, etc and invite their fans to this thread
Macedonian (Napoli) 3 years ago
Velja what is you opinion on my proposal for Balkan Super League with 64 clubs from 8 federation knockout then group stage then finals details posted on this page couple post above and dates to.
Balkans
You can make hot topic only if you want if you work with cool head you can resolve problems in civilized manner. And you have to except people for what they are respect their customs so they can respect you back technology is changing everything around as is changing but you must find the best way to make the best from what you have. Even some times have to settle for compromises
VeljaSrbin (FK Partizan Beograd) 3 years ago
Honestly, I'm still leaning towards league format for regional competition. Main reason is more quality matches in this type of system. I believe football would benefit most if all giants would play each other every season, and not depend on a draw.

Your proposition is a good one as well, but in that case I would start the league with 64 clubs from 6 ex-Yugoslavian states. I would not introduce clubs from other countries in first couple of seasons, until regional is has proved as successful
Peteko 3 years ago
It makes sense Velja, because Bulgaria and Romania have never been part of Yugoslavia and may have little interest in getting into this regional league. However, if it is a success, they may be lured into joining it. They have an interesting pool of talents and would strengthen the Balkans League
Macedonian (Napoli) 3 years ago

Velja
If you have Balkan league has to be very small max 12 Clubs due has to be played in mid week due clubs must play National League Europe and have free windows weeks for national teams football and summer and winter brake doing this will benefit the big clubs only.

You can have bigger league only possible if Ex YU States give up their spots in Europe and to go to the original proposal Balkan Premier League this will benefit big but also small clubs.

Knock out competitions is only way you can involved big and small clubs and has less rounds
Macedonian (Napoli) 3 years ago
Back to topic
I wish we get some more input from other member from different countries Like Croatia Bosnia Slovenia Bulgaria even from some western European Countries just to know general feeling of the public on this topic.
VeljaSrbin (FK Partizan Beograd) 3 years ago
I was hoping for the same, but I guess Balkan is a hot potato to deal with!
Peteko 3 years ago
There's Markodon, this Croat guy, who gave input in the beginning of the thread.

But, yes, I'd be curious what someone from Romania or Bulgaria feels about this idea. I have my doubts, but I'd wait for their feedback
VeljaSrbin (FK Partizan Beograd) 3 years ago
Yeah, Markodon was pretty active at the early days of this thread. But we have to understand that regional league is a slow topic as well. That is why I welcome other news regarding football in this region as well.

Peteko 3 years ago
I can't read Serbian, because I am not from former Yugoslavia, but I read a translation of this in an Albanian newspaper.

The only Serbian player of Skendija seems to have no problem living in Tetovo among Albanians and he promises Partizan would be welcomed there.

He also says that there is no connection between Ballists of Skendija and Ballists of the WWII.

Now that's the spirit of co-existence and inter-ethnic harmony that would make possible a return of the great league.


Link: www.novosti.rs/vesti/sport.72.html:335269-Nikitovi...
VeljaSrbin (FK Partizan Beograd) 3 years ago
I do not think that here is a question if Serbian can live peacefully among Albanians, or vice versa, because I have no doubt in it! Also, as Macedonian said, I believe that match being played in Skopje is going to ease up tensions between two sides. I am sure that in Belgrade it is going to be a safe atmosphere, because Partizan got burned few years ago against Zrinjski, when we were kicked out from Europe League due to fans riot, even though we beat Bosnian side away and at home
Peteko 3 years ago
Ouch that sucks. Having won both games and still not going through. You work hard for those victories and some idiots in the crowd make it go all to waste. These decisions are hard on clubs and players (and the silent majority of the fans). No surprise then if players try to go abroad, investors look elsewhere and fans decide to abandon the stadia
Macedonian (Napoli) 3 years ago
Meter of time when Balkan League starts they need to put a lot of effort in safety so I suggest as measures.

1. Play only at 80% capacity of stadiums.
2. No organized group trips for first 2 seasons.
3. Only requisite you can use scarf and hat no flags and banners no national flags.
With out any written insult.
4. Every single fan need to be search before entering stadium.
5. Very strict on racial national or any sort of insults from spectators.
Even if have to be played on empty stands

Peteko 3 years ago
All important proposals Mac. Although it will run counter to the need to bring more crowds to the stadiums. Some habits are hard to die
Macedonian (Napoli) 3 years ago
Even England had stage which had problems with hooligans but Balkans is even more delicate its not just simple drunken full is more delicate

Those hooligans they not represent majority
But they are causing problems for well behaved people
Some politician will intervene to score some points to defend them as police was to hash on them because they ware ethnic Albanians.
SO you must be smart and be one step ahead to prevent the problems if you can
VeljaSrbin (FK Partizan Beograd) 3 years ago
By the way, I know I started this thread with regional league topic, but feel free and post anything that has to do with football in Balkans. There is always something interesting going on over here!
Peteko 3 years ago
Great idea, Velja. In fact I posted the above more in the context of the thread, but there is no reason why not to keep this thread alive with other news about football in the Balkans. The League may take a while to become a reality and until then there's plenty to talk about
Peteko 3 years ago
A side news, Flamurtari of Vlora (Albania) won 3-1 away in Podgorica, in their first leg of Europa League, against Buducnost (Montenegro).

I am writing this just as a reminder of the level of football in former Yugoslavia outside of Belgrade and Zagreb. I wonder now if the 10th placed Serbian club is better than Montenegro or Bosnia champions.

By the way, look at this coming test of crowd behavior.
Skendija (Shkendija) a Macedonian, but mostly made of ethic Albanians from Tetovo, is facing Partizan of Belgrade. The tabloid media is making the most so that there are clashes.
They are interviewing stupid fans promising clashes: Albanians traveling to Belgrade with a flag of Kosovo; Serbs coming down to Tetovo to show them the place, accompanied by "Greeks who will cross the border to support their orthodox brothers" and that "true Macedonians will support the Serbian side, not the Macedonian one".

I found all this very irresponsible. Sometimes it seems that some people in the media are dying to see some violence. Can't sport be just about sport?
Macedonian (Napoli) 3 years ago
Each side has lunatics same as one family not all of them are the same, but also the point is when Scendija won Macedonian Championship then ware celebrating do you know which flag was way wing Albanian also their supporters group is called Ballista which represent insult to all Ballista in second world war they were collaborating with fascist.
But any way however I wish we didn’t get this draw will ruin the representation of Macedonian sport in general
Macedonian (Napoli) 3 years ago
Peteko not shore which news you read but in Macedonian news is noting in context which will trigger violence and also Partisan has fans in Macedonia due Partisan was team from ex Yugo when Vardar was playing in ex Yugo Partisan had fans in Skopje not traveling fans
VeljaSrbin (FK Partizan Beograd) 3 years ago
What did you expect from media?! Off course they are looking to stir things up, they need to sell their papers! And as Macedonian said, you always have lunatics that will take football out of the site, and express their nationalism in violent way!

Quite honestly, without disrespecting anyone, I expect Partizan to win comfortably first match, and then there will be relaxed atmosphere in Belgrade. Also we have not had even minor incident over here for several years now (since French fan died after beat up from Partizan fans), because there is crazy amount of special police forces on the street whenever there is some risky football match. It was easier for Serbian fans to have riot in Genoa, than it is in Belgrade!
Macedonian (Napoli) 3 years ago
Velja
Partisan is class above Skendija but you never know any thing can happened Skendija is no bed side they entering as underdogs but they have double of motivation to prove them self
Peteko 3 years ago
Mac, you may be right, I don't remember the names of the papers now, but I think they were Serbian and Albanian, not Macedonian.
Yes, it makes sense for Partizan to still have fans in Macedonia and I know about the fans of Skendija calling themselves Ballists, another stupid mix of politics and football (by the way partisans fought against ballists in Albania, lol, hence the name Partizani, similar to Yugoslavia.)

Velja, yes, Partizan is way stronger than Skendija. Although in these cases the biggest risk is complacency. If they take it too easily it may cost them. It's just only two matches. You screw one, it could be too late to recover.
The risk of riots is bigger in Tetovo. I doubt too many Albanians would travel up to Belgrade. Also, clashes may be more probable if Partizan wins this narrowly. This is just an assumption.

Of course, the coefficient of Macedonia in the UEFA rankings will improve considerably if Skendija pulls a surprise.
Honestly, I have never seen them play and I was surprised when I saw that they had won the league in Macedonia. Now of course, I will root for them when they face Partizan, despite the slim chances
Macedonian (Napoli) 3 years ago
Peteko is the same to compare with.
If some one forms Supporters group in USA called al-Qaida they will be shoot dead in the streets of New York or any city in USA.
And the saddest story is Albanians which they on the site of Partisans in Second World War also fight against the ballista.

Match will be played in Skopje on Fillip 2 National Arena due Tetovo city stadium in not meeting the standards for Europe.
Tetovo has no bad stadium with capacity of 15000 but city needs to invest about 1000000 euro to bring the stadium up to standards.
Which I can’t understand they have two clubs playing in Macedonian first league last year Teteks played in Euro League and this year Scendija playing in Champions League.
Peteko 3 years ago
Lol, well ballistas are not exactly like Al-Qaeda.

A bit of history

I'll say only this. Ballistas were not as good as these Albs thinks they were and they were not as bad as the Macedonians think. The only comparison, I would think of is that of Chetniks and Ustasas.

Also Ballistas were not fascists. They actually fought against the Italian fascists. Their mistake was to cut a deal with the Germans, which left a stain of shame in their history.
Ideologically they were a mix, most actually were a bit lefty, but they aspired the Greater Albania which would be also free of communists.

Albanians never forgave them for joining the Germans and they sided with the partisans. Eventually partisans won the war.
After 50 years of dictatorship controlled by communists, the Ballists now claim that they would have been the best choice. Nevertheless, they are not popular even today among Albanians.

I am not sure why the fans of Skendija choose that name. They have little or no understanding of what Ballists were. I looked through their websites. There's little sense of history during WWII. But they are nationalists. That's obvious. I think it is important not to make general assumptions. As everywhere the hooligans are always in small numbers and you only help them if you blame the entire crowd
Macedonian (Napoli) 3 years ago
Peteko I don’t like to debate in this forum about history.
The similarity which I did use is with USA and Al-Qaeda & Macedonian and Ballista is Macedonians and Americans they have mutual sensitivity towards those names.

But not same in technical way one are terrorist recent times other ones ware collaborating with fascist long time ago.

You may say that from Albanian perspective for some Albanians ware freedom fighter also ideologist for Great Albania
But also they did kill Albanians but only Albanians.
If they ware on the side of the Partisans.

From Macedonian perspective they ware enemy against Macedonians they ware worst then Germans army, Local Albanian paramilitaries units Ballista they committed war criminal acts raping women, killing kids & civilians burning whole Macedonian villages they ware doing ethnical cleansing against Macedonian population in western parts of Macedonia also they want to clime part of Macedonian territory.
I know those kids which are supporters of scendija they have noting to do with Second World War but just from respect towards to their Macedonian community they should change that name.
It is insulting.
Club Scendija should distances from them on any way as much they helping to make good atmosphere in the match they are causing bad reputation for the club Macedonian Albanians also Macedonian sport in past they had numerous times club was punished because the way they beehive on soccer matches.
They don’t help the sport at all.
Totally against any fan group regardless of their ethnicity using the sport to fuel violence and express their anger. I will totally support the harshest measures even played under empty stands if that do not help relegate the club to lower league.
Love to watch English premier league due no violence and they don’t display any flags or banners hanging from the stands no pyrotechnics just scarf top maybe hat your voice and hands. It has some verbal abuse but to acceptable level.
Macedonian (Napoli) 3 years ago
This is prove this can be played on week days when Euro Leagues is not played used season 2010/11 as sample
Balkan super league
Round
First qualifying round
23–24 June 2010
2–3 July 2010
Second qualifying round
7–8 July 2010
14–15 July 2010
Third qualifying round
21-22 July 2010
23–24 July 2010
Group stage
Matchday 1 11–12 August 2010
Matchday 2 18–19 August 2010
Matchday 3 17–18 September 2010
Matchday 4 12–13 October 2010
Matchday 5 27–28 October 2010
Matchday 6 17–18November 2010
Round of 16
9–10 & 16–17 February 2011
2–3 & 9–10 March 2011
Quarter-finals
30–31 March 2011 6–7 April 2011
Semi-finals
20–21 April 2011 27–28 April 2011
Final
14 May 2011 at Marakana Stadium, Belgrade
If you open this link you will see dates are not matching

Link: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010%E2%80%9311_UEFA_Champio...

Macedonian (Napoli) 3 years ago
Velja
This draw format from 1 to 8 placed in their national league. Divided on prequalifying rounds Group Stages & Finals
8 Football Federation 8 teams total of 64 teams.


Teams entering in this round Teams advancing from previous round
First qualifying round (32 teams)
(A)5 placed taems Against 8 placed teams
(be) 6 placed team aginst 7 placed teams
Second qualifying round (16 teams)
(A) Winners Against (be) Winners
16 winners from the first qualifying round
Third qualifying round (16 teams)
Fourth-placed teams Against Winners second qualifying round
8 winners from the second qualifying round
Group stage(32 teams)8 Groups* 4 teams
8 champions from associations
8 runners-up from associations
8 third-placed teams from associations
8 winners from the third qualifying round
Knockout phase (16 teams)
8 group winners from the group stage
8 group runners-up from the group stage

Match 1 A Group Winner - be Group Runner-up
Match 2 be Group Winner - A Group Runner-up
Match 3 C Group Winner - D Group Runner-up
Match 4 D Group Winner - see Group Runner-up
Match 5 E Group Winner - F Group Runner-up
Match 6 F Group Winner - E Group Runner-up
Match 7 G Group Winner - H Group Runner-up
Match 8 H Group Winner - G Group Runner-up
Quarter-finals
Q final 1 Winner match 1 - Winners Match 2
Q final 2 Winner match 3 - Winners Match 4
Q final 3 Winner match 5 - Winners Match 6
Q final 4 Winner match 7 - Winners Match 8
Semi Final
S Final 1 Q final 1 - Q final 2
S final 2 Q final 3 - Q final 4
Finals s final 1 - S final 2
Macedonian (Napoli) 3 years ago
Velja I wish whole world was perfect and everybody shared their Welt equally but is not.
Even in nature big fish eats small fish.
Week becomes pray of the strong.
This is nature rule and as much we want can't not be changed.
Socialism was perfect example which was perfect on paper but didn’t work out all socialist countries fell apart.
My point is that process can’t be changed same is in Euro competition only big clubs are every year in final stages.
Also notice you using English premier league as example which is out of our economics use north American Country as model that is close to our circumstances.
I live in Australia which is not soccer country they had big problem in past with fiancés of clubs and corruption and ethnic problems.
The way overcome that problem clubs they must be register as private entity.
Have no association with name symbols and ethnic colours of the club.
Also they have cap salary in place which means all clubs are limited how much they can spend on players as whole including coach.
But when clubs play Asian Champions League they can compete with clubs from Japan, Korea, China those countries they don’t have salary cap on clubs.
Australian clubs they don’t have even playing field soonest talent gets developed will live in one of those countries or Europe. Because of salary cap.
They are clubs which are in position to spend more money on players but they are restricted by salary cap.
Which keeps competition even but quality of football improves very slowly.
So is not magic bulit to solve all problems you solve one create another one.
You will never impose salary cap on top guns in Europe.
So must go with the nature flow. Strongest is king of the Jungle.
VeljaSrbin (FK Partizan Beograd) 3 years ago
I think you misunderstood my intention here Macedonian. I am not talking about putting any restrictions on big clubs (salary cap is a nonsense, everybody should have the right to spend what they earn), but giving small clubs same opportunities that giants have. Not having exclusive regional league where couple of clubs from each country will be regular participants, but opening up that league for the smaller clubs as well.

Also you spoke about talents that small clubs develop. Developing talents will be much more effective if those small club get a chance to play over thirty quality matches in the season, instead having four or five. You spoke about building up things from the ground, and that's exactly what I am saying here. Partizan and Red Star, Hajduk and Dinamo, Zeljeznicar and Borac, Vardar, they are all roof in their countries, ground are clubs below them.

At the end I would disagree with the statement that socialism does not work, communism did not work. Socialism can work perfectly, just take a look at Scandinavian countries
Macedonian (Napoli) 3 years ago
Scandinavian countries are not Socialist they are modern capitalism which is the latest stage of Capitalism to go there you must go to process of raw capitalism to bring society to level of care for the most fortunate. Same in Australia we do have public Medicare Public Schools also Social Welfare System and public housing but you can’t call Socialism.

Velja
League is open to any club only they will have to win spot from one to four on table in their national league so will look like this if was played this year
I suggest have pilot trial Balkan super League and if interest is there you can change format and expend.

Example season 2011/12 balkan super league
Team
1 Partizan (see)
2 Red Star
3 Vojvodina
4 Rad
5 Dinamo Zagreb (see)
6 Hajduk Split
7 rnk Split
8 Cibalia
9 Borac Banja Luka (see)
10 Sarajevo
11 Željezničar
12 Široki Brijeg
13 Maribor (see)
14 Domžale
15 Koper
16 Olimpija
17 Mogren (see)
18 Budućnost Podgorica
19 Rudar
20 Zeta
21 Škendija (see)
22 Metalurg
23 Renova
24 Rabotnički
25 Litex Lovech (see)
26 Levski Sofia
27 CSKA Sofia
28 Lokomotiv Sofia
29 Oţelul Galaţi (see)
30 Vaslui
31 Rapid Bucureşti
32 Steaua Bucureşti

This will be interesting to watch

To address your concern for the smaller clubs you can organise prequalification stage for Balkan super league for clubs finished in domestic completion 5 placed to 8 placed clubs which can start in end of July which means all clubs from first division will be involved and this probably is sustainable for start.
So with this if domestic leagues are 12 clubs 8 clubs will get chance to compete besides clubs which will be relegated.
Peteko 3 years ago
I think that there are no perfect projects. Nor will this thing start as a problem-free project. Debates may never end. A pilot league as mentioned by Macedonian would be a great start. Test the waters. Test the level of interest and see whether public and businesses respond.
Then you correct problems as you move forward, if at all.
Macedonian (Napoli) 3 years ago
Correct finances will be big problem to support that big project.
We can’t afford to fail from start.
So you start small then you build up slowly.
Best for start is knock out competition as suggested Balkan super league so played in parallel with domestic and Euro Leagues.
So big clubs still play in their domestic league & Euro League which pre qualification starts around end July and most likely all Balkan clubs will be out by October even if they still playing euro leagues Balkan league can be played in weeks which euro competitions is not playing.
Which will bring extra completive matches for clubs to bring those extra finances so clubs can get stronger.
To address your concern for the smaller clubs you can organise prequalification stage for Balkan super league for clubs finished in domestic completion 5 placed to 8 placed clubs which can start in end of July which means all clubs from first division will be involved and this probably is sustainable for start.
So with this if domestic leagues are 12 clubs 8 clubs will get chance to compete besides clubs which will be relegated.
But even this is risky from season one will be too much expenses for new formed federation.
I suggest have pilot trial Balkan super League and if interest is there you can change format and expend.
But start has to be as risk free possible.
Also infrastructure is problem most of small clubs they don’t have Euro approved stadiums you can’t take risk all safety standards must be in place other ways can create big problems.
Looking in this as pure business nothing nostalgically or sentimental.
Whatever you do must follow basic steps of growth baby steps if you build to fast with no good foundation is meter of time one small hick up all falls apart.
Second League is out of reach can’t be done most of clubs are poor they only can benefit if they concentrate on young talents development so our local giants by them hold to them to rise their value then sell them which was the same case with ex Yugo clubs
VeljaSrbin (FK Partizan Beograd) 3 years ago
Totally agree with you in the first part that this project is not a easy one to pull out, especially financially.

But I would have to disagree on your point of view in the second part of your comment. In these passages you are leaning towards centralization of football power. Small clubs should not serve to the "giants" in developing talent, so big clubs could get reacher by selling them. This is exactly why infrastructure of small clubs has not improved in decades, because they are being abused by few which have money.

Regional league should be used to make domestic leagues stronger, and not the other way around. We need to give small clubs opportunity to be competitive as well. I repeat, I firmly believe that the main reason for poor state of football in this region are "giant" clubs, and we need to have football power spread among other clubs if we wish to prosper more in this game. Again, ManU would not be an institution that it is if there was no Totenham, Aston Villa, etc
Macedonian (Napoli) 3 years ago
Velja in moment local talent lives when are 18 even younger.
I will use Goran Pandev as example was playing for youth for Belasica small club from Strumica he got spotted as talent by scouts and inter offer him contract sign they got him for penates local club didn’t get a cent from this transfer.
Pandev began his football career with FK Belasica, the club with which he progressed through the youth academy. [1] He only spent one season in the local Prva Liga though, before being signed by major Italian Serie A club Inter in the summer of 2001 when he was just 18 years old. [1]
Inter loaned Pandev to Spezia, where he was a regular in Serie C1. [2] The following year, he was again sent on loan, this time to newly promoted Ancona. Despite the Dorici having a nightmare of a season, the worst of any club in Serie A history.
Lazio
In January 2004, Serbian star Dejan Stanković was signed by Inter from Lazio and Pandev was sent to the capital in exchange on a co-ownership deal, which Pandev was remained at Ancona until end of 2003-04 seasaon. Pandev impressed in his first year at Lazio, as he made 29 appearances, scoring 3 goals including a memorable effort away to Juventus where he beat Fabio Cannavaro, Lilian Thuram and Gianluca Zambrotta, before beating Gianluigi Buffon with an angled shot. In July 2005 another half of registration rights was transferred from Internazionale to Udinese for David Pizarro's transfer.
The following season, Delio Rossi was appointed manager of Lazio, and Pandev began to form a deadly strike partnership with Tommaso Rocchi. Lazio opted to purchase Pandev's full contract in the summer of 2006, bidding around 4 million euro for Udinese's share in the contract, which they had bought from Inter. [3]
On the 11 January 2009 he scored his first hat-trick in Serie A against Reggina. [4]
On 24 March 2009, Pandev was awarded the Medal for Service to the Country by the then-President Branko Crvenkovski in acknowledgement of his sporting achievements and his contribution to developing and popularizing sport in Macedonia as well as promoting the country abroad. [5]
[edit] Contract dispute with Lazio
In the summer of 2009, a dispute between Pandev and Lazio president Claudio Lotito erupted, resulting in a legal battle between Pandev and his club. The ruling was announced on December 23, 2009. [6][7][8]
The dispute started with Pandev indicating his desire to leave Lazio during the summer of 2009. Club president Lotito, apparently unhappy with Pandev's decision, froze him out of the squad. As a result, Pandev spent the remaining four months training on his own, without making a single appearance for his club. During this period, various clubs had indicated their interest in buying Pandev, most notably Zenit St. Petersburg, who made an offer of 13 million euros for the player. Lazio president Lotito rejected the offer, demanding 15 million euros instead. The deal eventually fell through after both parties failed to come to an agreement on price. [9]
On 26 September, Pandev officially filed for a termination of his contract with Lazio, having been frozen out of the squad and labelled a 'rebel' by the club. Pandev argued that by freezing him out of the squad, Lazio had violated the terms of their contract with him. On 23 December 2009, Lega Calcio ruled in Pandev's favor, ordering Lazio to release Pandev from his contract and pay him 170, 000 euros for emotional distress. Lotito indicated his desire to appeal the decision. [citation needed]
[edit] Internazionale
On 4 January 2010, Pandev signed a 4½-year contract with Internazionale, [10] wearing the number 27 shirt. He made his Internazionale debut as a starter in the 1–0 away win against Chievo on January 6. His first two games for the Nerazzurri resulted in him contributing to both winners — setting up Mario Balotelli against Chievo, and setting up Walter Samuel to score a last minute winner against Siena. His first goal for Inter arrived against Bari, pulling a goal back for Internazionale after falling behind by two goals. Three minutes later, he earned a penalty that levelled the score. In the 2–0 victory over local rivals A. [C.] Milan, he assisted Diego Milito with an overhead cross, and scored a curling freekick to complete the win. [11] On 22 May 2010 F. [C.] Internazionale Milano won the UEFA Champions League final against F. [C.] Bayern Munich, with Pandev becoming the third Macedonian football player in history ever winning this championship.
On 16 December 2010 FC Internazionale Milano had reached the final of FIFA Club World Cup. Goran Pandev scored his first goal in FIFA Club World Cup, and his first goal in a major final. He is the first ever Macedonian to score and win the FIFA Club World Cup Championship. In the Round of 16 of the UEFA Champions league, he score Inter's third goal to win over FC Bayern Munich.

And all this reflects in his later career he is more worth then what is earning in moment.
This is the point which I want you to understand if was a strong local league he will play at least 3 seasons min then will be sold for 4 to 6 Million Euros Local giant will get some compensation for him but also mother club gets compensation to.
So what happens with money of local Giants they will spend to keep their talent longer which will increase prize of talent also will be more clubs on lookout for local talent which will raise the price so smaller clubs will get more money will hold their talent longer and developed winning team which will win championship example in Ex yogo League Velez Sarajevo Vardar Zeleznicar Vojvodina.... They ware clubs which will developed generation ones in decade.
So this will increase quality and will make clubs to progress further in Euro competition.
Example Red Star wining generation only two players from youth development rest from picked up from the rest of clubs in ex Yugo League.
Yugoslavia had a ban on players up to age 26 must play in local league.
Today that is not the case even if you want to you can’t due our countries are striving to open market to join Euro Zone.
VeljaSrbin (FK Partizan Beograd) 3 years ago
We are here on the same page, goal of the regional league is to create more competitive environment in order to keep football talents as long as possible
Macedonian (Napoli) 3 years ago
Velja you misunderstood me
If Vardar was playing in better league he will by Pandev from Belasica and I think Inter only pay for him only 300 000 Euro in moment even 300 000 are too much for one player for Vardar.
Point is if big local clubs are strong they will be the first to spot on talent they will by them also relatively cheap but will hold on to them 2 or 3 seasons then will be sold Big club benefit but also mother club.
In mean time because of that league will be strong and money will be spend locally on more talents



   
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