Forums / Manchester United
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DwayneGooney (Manchester United) 4 years ago
I disagree with you on just about everything prophet, including the statement that we had a "fantastic" season when we won the PL, finalist of the champions league, and semi-finalist of the FA.
We didn't play smooth attacking football we are use to seeing, and got embarrassed by barcelona, that truely showed where we were in terms of how good our play and level of football was at.

I guess you must have forgetton the just about everytime Giggs started in CM we had JSP fieled out to the left, sometimes behind the striker, doing all the work and hustle to make up for the weak defensive skills Giggs provides.

We don't play good football when we field, carrick, giggs, scholes at the same time, simple as. We play too slow, they're too slow, they don't make any attacking runs for fear of counter attacks so we wait until the last 20 mins to get aggresive and score goals. This has been an issue for a couple seasons now and SAF is still making the same mistakes. Theres only one reason we lose these games to weak teams, not because they outplay, not because they are a better club then us, its because SAF fields the wrong team.

Aslo, I found one of your reasons as to why SAF started with Giggs against Norwich is because he has a "good record against them" just funny, teams change there styles and players so often, especially teams that get promoted/relegated, that that shouldnt be a reason for a player to start
Cjaystacks (Manchester United) 4 years ago
I agree its the wrong team selection what cost us the game and I knew we would end up losing once I saw giggs and carrick in the starting line up
Prophet88 (Manchester United) 4 years ago
So you disagree.... Why am I not surprised.... Well let me elucidate it better as it may paint a proper picture.

In the PL that season we beat Blackburn 7-1 on 27thNov and we topped the table from that Nov to straight up to the end of the season in May. Top of the table in all those months. So when we won the league it was by 9points.... One of the biggest victory margins. We never surrendered that top spot.

Now in the champions league we were top right from the beginning. There was no real obstacle. We beat Chelsea at SB in a long time in the quarters and in the semis we strolled past Schalke. Now in the final, we were facing one of the best teams of this generation with quite possibly one of best player of all time.... All on top of their games.... Saying that if you watch the first quarter of the match nobody would believe how dominated we were and Barca were quite surprised too. So reaching halftime the scoreline is 1-1 and mind you that assist for our only goal was from Giggs and we were playing 4-4-2. In the 2nd half they quite evidently and as expected came out strong and we lost but far from embarrassed as you mentioned.

So if that wasn't too your liking and left you embarrassed maybe the city neighbors would be a better bet for you to support.

I don't base my stuff on preconceived notion and argue based on purely facts and figures.

Also, JSP during his time at OT played most of the big games.... He was what Fergie called a big game player and didn't matter who was in the lineup JSP was champions league specialist and was used in big games. Even if we would have had Anderson that season in team.... JSP was likely to play in big games.... Again a cold hard fact that you conveniently chose to ignore.

Who the f**k said to start all those 3 at the same time.... I never said that.... We did that once this season and I wasn't impressed and Fergie agreed and made the halftime changes.

"Couple of seasons" wtf are you smoking? .... No seriously.... Scholes coming back was like second coming last season.... We played some good football too with our Wingers in form too.... It all was clicking very well. This season Fergie wanted to rest Cleverley after the Olympics so he didn't start but he slowly eased him in as our starter.... The only games he hasn't started was when he was on Eng duty in the same week.

Against Norwich, I don't know why are you even bringing Giggs up when our midfield was one of the only position that wasn't downright abysmal.

You conveniently forget Valencia and Young who were just atrocious in that game with no supplies at all.

Our FBs failing to track resulting in that goal.

Our strikers' positional sense and finishing were non existence.

All this reasons were quite clearly more responsible than blaming Giggs and Carrick.... Why people ignore all this other details is completely beyond me.

Only if you can justify all this reasons for our other players not performing than you may have the right to blame the midfield.... But I cannot see how you can walk past that.

Learn to see the game in its entirety and see all its elements rather than following a herd of sheep and yacking when everyone else does it too
DwayneGooney (Manchester United) 4 years ago
You just amuse me how you always think you're right.

LET ME paint YOU A picture

It doesn't matter how many you win by, its the games you win that matter, we are just about getting outclassed by everyother team in Europe, do you forget that? You fail to see that beating blackburn 7-1 and winning the PL means nothing when we get outplayed by Barcelona, again.

To the barca game, you can explain why in the first quarter of the game it was close, its called adrenaline, you ever hear of that? Yeah well once that passed by we were left defending for our lives, are you always seeming to forget that our goal WAS offside? And that that was our only real chance in the whole game. You think the fact that giggs had an assist, and gets an assist every now and then, it must he should be playing? No he was absolutely outclassed by xavi and iniesta.

Lmao do you think I know nothing of united? Wtf is wrong with you? You don't think I know JSP plays most big games? Well guess what, you know who else has been playing a lot of big games recently, and most specifically, 2 seasons ago, when we won the PL and made the champions league final? RYAN GIGG, alongside JSP.
So please tell me what "Again a cold hard fact that you conveniently chose to ignore. ", because the one ingoring facts is YOU.

Who the f**k to start all 3? NO ONE. I said when giggs, carrick, scholes play together its not good football, we play too slow. How often do they ever play at the same time? RARE, obv. I mean when 2 of the 3 are on the field at the same time, or when they are all 3 together like last game.

Couple of season? YES A couple OF seasons, we've been missing a physical midfielder and creativity from the midfield for a couple of seasons now, are we just now having this midfield problem!?!

Our midfield was the only thing abysmal vs Norwich? Are you kidding me? Norwich had 8-9 players behind the ball at all times while we only have 4 attackers, what teams win like that?!?! Have you ever played football in your life bro?
Carrick nor Giggs make runs after they pass the ball, where as Cleverley and anderson always make a run forward for a 1 2 or to open the defence and it creates chances. How do you expect to beat a team parking the bus when our CM's don't give us much defensive cover or attacking options? Crossing the ball? Why do you think crossing the ball didn't work? Cause they're NO options.
All the problems you say that are more responsible than blaming carrick or giggs is stupid, the problem IS starting carrick AND giggs IN CM.
Tactics, SAF got the tactics wrong, again. Simple as that.

"Learn to see the game in its entirety and see all its elements rather than following a herd of sheep and yacking when everyone else does it too" this insults are hilarious to me, it wouldnt surprise me if you're british to be honest
DwayneGooney (Manchester United) 4 years ago
Prophet88 (Manchester United) 4 years ago
Lol.... Before painting me a picture first learn how to use the colors which in this case is understanding english.

Here's why
First of all I never in my post above mention any significance of victory margin in a game. The reason I brought up that blackburn game was because it was after winning that game we went top of the table for the first time that season and held on to the top spot for that entire season.... Didn't drop a single place. Now the reason I brought up the scoreline was to highlight the time of season and since it was such a huge scoreline people tend to remember the time frame.

"Outclassed by everyother team"
What a complete baloney! Just goes to show how much you know.... We were undefeated in the champions league until the final that season.... Argue on facts and not on your false intuition.

About that Barca game.... As I said before we were playing one of the greatest teams of our time and every team would be outplayed by them.... They beat Real Madrid 5-0 that season.... They were simply flying that season and quite so considering the players they. So again a mute point.

Also maybe you could suggest a player to replace Giggs in that final. You criticising giggs for that season when he was absolutely exceptional proves my point further in that maybe you don't remember that season or are foolishly ignoring it.

Oh and your blabber about JSP and Giggs is just so poorly worded I have hard time figuring out what it is you're trying to convey there.

Ok now the Norwich game, let me give you a football lesson.

When a team parks the bus or have alot of players behind the ball.... Guess which tactical play you use.... Wingplay. You use wingers and overlapping FBs to stretch that defence. You don't go through the middle with your 1-2s as they are not as effective as wingplay when opposition has parked the bus. So I think it is you who has never played football in his life.... Doesn't matter atleast know the basics.

Your argument of our current CMs not providing defensive cover falsifies in itself when you yourself are advocating Cleverley and Anderson who of all the CMs we have are the last people to do that. They have great interchange of play and fantastic going forward but don't tell me they track back and provide a defensive cover. Anderson is hardly able to move after 60mins and Cleverley gets lost going forward so much that if we lose the ball it becomes extremely hard for him track back.

"Why do you think crossing the ball didn't work? Cause they're NO options. "

Oh this line was your best one.... Lmao

The penalty box during the crossing always had atleast a couple of our players in there.... But the delivery in itself was so horrible that the crosses never went pass the first blocker or defender. And even if any that made it, our strikers weren't finishing them off.
But you're so stubborn in your claim that you fail to see these things.

And congratulations for categorizing a group of people based on a single person's output. Just because you don't have the argumentative skills needed to lay down a proper case it doesn't warrant you the right to pass judgement on people of an entire nation
Prophet88 (Manchester United) 4 years ago
*double post*
Prophet88 (Manchester United) 4 years ago
*double post*
Prophet88 (Manchester United) 4 years ago
Can anyone delete this double posts
DwayneGooney (Manchester United) 4 years ago
Lmao and what does the blackburn score have to do with anything? To show how good our play of football was? How good has it been since then? We lost the league last season, and already have 3 losses, second place to City who are undeafeted, and just like how we didn't lose the top spot since Nov 27 what makes you think city isn't capable of the same?
How good have we've been playing in Europe since we lost to Barcelona? The reasons we don't perform as well in Europe are the same reasons we lost to Norwich, I don't get why I have to explain that
DwayneGooney (Manchester United) 4 years ago
Do you realize the quality of the teams on our way to the final?
Barracuda (Manchester United) 4 years ago
Come on lads, this is turning out to be a "I am right, you are wrong" sort of conversation.

Whilst I condemn the criticism of Sir Alex, I have to agree on the fact that the quality of our performances have been declining since the season we won the last PL.

That being said, people are forgetting the fact that we are still second and very much in this PL race. Also what the hell is up with most of the fans throwing in the towel and acting as the Manchester derby is already won by City? Unconvincing as we have been this season, we have every chance of winning it just like city
Prophet88 (Manchester United) 4 years ago
DO YOU understand english?

The blackburn score is of no importance.... Its winning that game that propelled us to the top of the league for the 1st time that season and from then on we never dropped down and stayed 1st the rest of the season.... Jesus why is this so hard to understand.... Lol

I understand Barra, but people are focusing only one aspect of the game blaming and making it a scapegoat when in reality there were other positions that were far more responsible for our failure at Norwich.

I arguing based on facts and figure and not a general held opinion. At some point rationality should take precedence over stereotypical views
DwayneGooney (Manchester United) 4 years ago
It amuses me how you write something then come back later to edit it, just further trying to be right when you're wrong.

That's your excuse for them simply outclassing us? That same team got beat by inter milan the year before and chelsea the year after beating us. Beating us 2 times in 3 years.

Who the f**k is criticising giggs for the season?! Are you dumb? I clearly remember the season, I clearly remember us winning games late and not playing the most attractive football. Do you not remember that? Just remember the champions league final, the game explains our season.

Let me give you a united lesson prophet, our play is already wingplay, and clearly IT wasnt working since valencia AND young didn't provide ANY service. Do you really fail to see that?!? So what do we do next? Nothing, make a couple of substitutions to only continue the wingplay that isn't working.

Cleverley use to play as a LB, and is always running back to defend, rarely gets caught forward as he tends to stay at the top of the box or even deeper. Wtf kind of games are you watching?

Lmao yes prophet lets keep throwing crosses into the box when theres 2 attackers and 6-7 defenders there, defenders who already know we are crossing the ball due to the fact carrick and giggs provide such a weak attack threat.

You fail to realize and continue to realize that the things holding us back from winning these games and doing better in Europe is our CM and SAF picking the wrong tactics
DwayneGooney (Manchester United) 4 years ago
The blackburn score is of no importance.... Its winning that game that propelled us to the top of the league for the 1st time that season and from then on we never dropped down and stayed 1st the rest of the season.... Jesus why is this so hard to understand.... Lol"

What does this have to do with anything?

"And congratulations for categorizing a group of people based on a single person's output. Just because you don't have the argumentative skills needed to lay down a proper case it doesn't warrant you the right to pass judgement on people of an entire nation"
This is so hypocritical I'm not even going to get into this.

Why do I even reply to you? Lol all you do is keep editing what you say just so you can look right
Prophet88 (Manchester United) 4 years ago
I have not edited anything that's already posted. I wasn't able to type my entire repsonse and it got posted before that and as you can see from those multiple *double posts*.

Anyways, that Inter team and the Chelsea team both played extreme defensive football to get those wins. And from your responses here, I don't think you like that type of football since you were advocating "smooth football" earlier.... Then what I don't get is why are giving those examples when you yourself want United to play fast pace attacking football which btw I am completely for and also respect that Fergie didn't park the bus and honored our club play style.

The same defensive type football won Celtic the game at home and they almost did the same Camp Nou. So by your definition Celtic outclassed Barca right?

I like how you're regurgitating what I had already pointed out by forming it into a question.... Meanwhile contradicting your own earlier points.... Bravo.... Lol

DwayneGooney (Manchester United) 4 years ago
I'm done with this conversation, theres no point of this with your big headed, thinking you're always right attitude, making insults with your " I don't know why I have to explain this blah blah blah", "prophet" thinking self. Its a joke really lol
I continue to make good points in reply to what you say yet ignore what I have to say and only reply with something to make you look right, even when you're wrong.

Point is.... We arent playing the best football, we werent 2 years ago when we won the PL and lost the champions league to barcelona, and now in 2012, we still have the same midfield issues and tactical decisions not being in our favor. Yet the reason we lost to norwich isn't because we fielded carrick and giggs, its because our forwards, RVP and CH14, played terrible and had bad positioning, our wingers were terrible, and our FB's couldn't defend. Yes exactly why we lost, not because carrick and giggs lack the strength, PACE, and creativity we need from the midfield, no that's not the same reasons why we have been struggling in Europe recently....

Have a good day
Prophet88 (Manchester United) 4 years ago
It happens when all your arguments, point by point get dismantled and when you start contradicting your original views.... Won't hold it against you.

Atleast you're finally seeing how there were other culprits in wingers, attackers and defenders and not just from a single frame of reference. Well glad we made some progress.

Nothing against you mate.... Sometimes words don't do justice to the nature of the conversation
DwayneGooney (Manchester United) 4 years ago
The only points that got dismantled here were the ones you tried making

Like I keep saying, I continue to make good points in reply to what you say yet ignore what I have to say and only reply with something to make you look right, even when you're wrong.

Mhmmm, just keep on editing your posts bro...
Prophet88 (Manchester United) 4 years ago
Sure, keep trying to convince yourself.... People often resort to petty blame when their own incompetence is evident....

Atleast the conversation would put some more light on the issue and provide members with a broader overview.... So thanks for the assist

Cjaystacks (Manchester United) 4 years ago
We lost 3 games before the manchester derby in december and in both of the games we lost we fielded the same midfield partnership. So now every priemer league team would be happy if they see the Giggs/Carrick combo in our midfield. I thought after that embarrasing spurs defeat at home we would never see that partnership again but suprise suprise another frustrating game to watch with those two in the middle. The most losses we had when we won a priemer league is 6 and now we already have 3losses. We might be sitting 1 point behind city but they are yet to lose a game and these losses could always prove very costly in the title race
Prophet88 (Manchester United) 4 years ago
Ok so do you remember the starting midfield when we won the PL, finalist in champions league and semi-finalist in FAcup.... We had Giggs and Carrick as our CMs and we did fantastic that season.... So the season following that we kept that midfield but since Carrick was injured and due to Cleverson's performance in the community shield he kept that combo which served us well albeit for a short period due to injuries.

So the only thing left was to reinstate the successful partnership of Carrick and Giggs from the season before which we did and had a couple of hiccups but that was expected as Carrick came back from injury and Giggs hadn't played for a while.

Now talking about us having 3 losses at this stage of the season doesn't paint a proper picture because we even with that we are only 1pt short of top.

"We might be sitting 1 point behind city but they are yet to lose a game and these losses could always prove very costly in the title race".

Wow this s**t really makes me laugh.... Lol

So even if they haven't lost a game, they have drawn 4 so they too have dropped quite a lot of points.... At the end of the season its the point total that counts not the no. Of losses or draws. Even if they go unbeaten the entire season at the end of the day its points tally that would matter the most so pondering on losses or draws doesn't matter as long as we are in touching distance
Prophet88 (Manchester United) 4 years ago
*double post*
Cjaystacks (Manchester United) 4 years ago
That's your opinion we made it in the final and got beaten twice by barca? So whats the point and in 2011 we didn't have much tough teams in the knock out round marseille and schalke? Really lol maybe chelsea was our biggest test. To keep in touching distance you must avoid dropping points. The lose against norwich might seem like nothing but like last year the lost against blackburn at home proved costly
Prophet88 (Manchester United) 4 years ago
What a bunch of pessimist sissys we have here.... Some of you just plain right make me laugh with your lack of understanding of the game by passing judgements like we got relegated. Also surprised at some who I thought knew better but I guess not.

And no I am not condemning the criticism but atleast be constructive with it and not just state the obvious blabber. Give a proper account of your arguments instead of hashing the same old bullshit.

Also FFS don't act all doom and gloom like we entered administration.... We lost 1 game after a good run of 8 wins bar the LC which is never in precedent anyways. That run results can be compared to any top european team.

Remember that without Fergie we wouldn't be even in top4 let alone top2 atm.

The reason is made this thread so we can clear some commonly held misconceptions and get a better perspective
Prophet88 (Manchester United) 4 years ago
"I think your over-reacting a bit there.... I know criticism has been harsh from people myself included but as fans we have a right to criticise and I think people have made their points well and have backed up their arguments.... Well I feel I have anyway.

People are just upset by the poor selections of our "golden oldie" midfield against Spurs and Norwich when we have so much talent on the bench / reserves.... It has cost us points in games where we have more than enough quality to win.... We saw what happened with the shock results against Blackburn and Everton at home last season and it cost us the league.

You need to understand how frustrating it is when theres talent like Cleverley, Anderson, Powell, Lingard and to a lesser extent Petrucci and Tunnicliffe not being utilised.

We've got to think about the future of our club here mate and playing a midfield 3 with a combined age of 108 is bad news no matter how "sissy" some of us may be. "
Prophet88 (Manchester United) 4 years ago
Lol at I am over-reacting when in reality its you and some others who have just been hashing the same thing over and over again in a very condescending nature without understanding the entirety of the situation. Also not taking into consideration all the various factors that go into getting a positive result.

People in here were too focused on one thing which wasn't even the concern yesterday. This in itself was clouding judgements on looking at the other aspects of the game which by in large were more at fault than the ones being pointed out.

This is because of prejudice that has been created forcing people to make observation under those false pretenses.

Cleverley played midweek for Eng.... Nobody seems to mention that.... Anderson is having hard time lasting longer than 60mins without getting completely exhausted. Both if they play more than 2 games a week have a tendency to get injured.... And once they are injured they take forever to recuperate. So its important to ease them in slowly and not like last year when they started out with a bang and then missed the entire season with recurring injuries.

And this is where I laugh.... People suggesting Powell and Lingard.... Lol.... If we had started them in place of either of the midfielders yesterday we would've got battered. Off the ball Powell is almost invisible and in the PL you pay a heavy price for that. Lingard lacks maturity and tends to give the ball away far too often.... Won't even go on about the others
Prophet88 (Manchester United) 4 years ago
I agree that there is certainly some prejudice especially against Carrick who is undeservedly criticised at times but he was awful against Norwich and deserved criticism.

I also agree that the focus on the midfield play was perhaps over done slightly as the wide play was even worse not to mention some poor finishing especially RVP's 2 "fresh air" shots.

"Also not taking into consideration all the various factors that go into getting a positive result. "

Not sure what your implying here but the points being made about young midfield talent being wasted still stand true no matter what you say.

We have an absolutely pointless game against Galatarsary mid-week which should have been the game that Giggs and Scholes were played in when in all likelihood that will be the game that Cleverley and Anderson play in.

Cleverley, Anderson, Powell etc are the future of this club and should be the ones being trusted and I don't care if we lose out on the league as long as the fans can see relatively young player's being fielded then they know this club has a bright future and we can enjoy fast paced exciting Manchester United style football again.

There is no disputing the fact that the standard and entertainment of our football is a hell of a lot better when Clev's and Ando play.

That is what people are concerned about Prophet.... We are not fielding our younger midfielders as much as we should and we are letting academy prospects slip through our fingers while we continue plodding on with 38 year olds who are due for retirement.

Let me make it clear that I have the utmost respect for everything Giggs and Scholes have done for us but should there previous heroics give them the right to hold back the future development of this club? No it shouldn't.
Prophet88 (Manchester United) 4 years ago


"lol at I am over-reacting when in reality its you"

I missed this bit when I first read so I'll post again.

I'd like to quote the following "over-reacting" that you just did in your original post:

"by passing judgements like we got relegated"

No one has been that harsh, we are disappointed, we have not behaved like we have been relegated.

"Give a proper account of your arguments instead of hashing the same old bullshit"

Several people have made excellent points about the quality of our football when Querioz was on the coaching staff.... If you think we play better football without Querioz then your being very deluded.

Also the points about our midfield 3 having an age of 108 is still true and theres no disputing the quality of our play declines when we play Carrick, Giggs and Scholes together.

Also the points made about bringing Scholes out of retirement which could well have cost us Pogba is still true no matter how you look at it.

"Also FFS don't act all doom and gloom like we entered administration"

This is similar to the bit where you mentioned relegation.... No one has over-reacted that badly as I said people have been disappointed but no one has behaved in a fashion that could equate to the club being in "administration".

No one has talked about finances either if that's what you meant by "administration".

"If you wanna go on about the topic of Management.... Make a thread on the side titled management"

I understand your annoyance here but this is an open forum and people like to have open conversations here to maximise people seeing there points.... To be honest I am getting sick of people ordering others to make threads.... If we made a thread about everything then nothing would ever get discussed in the open forum.

"Remember that without Fergie we wouldn't be even in top4 let alone top2 atm. "

Fergie is a genius but I disagree heavily here.... His selections against Spurs and Norwich may well have cost us vital points.... I think the world class quality of Rooney and RVP are more responsible for our current league position.

So yes I do feel you over-reacted there.
Prophet88 (Manchester United) 4 years ago
Ok point by point i'll try to address all that you said

You said there are prejudices against Carrick but at the same time described him as awful against Norwich when in reality there were many other culprits in that game that were purely shocking.... Namely our wingers and at times our FBs. So in essence you're proving that prejudice by applying it in your assessment of our players.

The factors I was talking about in getting a positive result was understanding the opposition and working accordingly to get the best result.

You said our young midfield talent is wasted but again you fail to see my point that I pointed in the post above of which you didn't have a proper response either. Anyways, as I said earlier Cleverley played midweek for Eng and most fans in here seem to forget that. One of the biggest reasons why he didn't start against Norwich. Because for the past few weeks he has been starting in our midfield.... One more fact people tend to ignore. And considering his injury record it wasn't wise to start him. Anderson every game he's played this season gets exhausted after 60mins and Fergie is slowly and steadly building his endurance level so that he won't get injured again. Both Cleveley and Anderson when suffer an injury.... Its always recurring for them and its hard for them to get out of it as it drags on for the entire season.

This is called man-management as it involves planning of the entire season and not just a game or two which most people here fail to consider.

We have a bright future and of all people Fergie is the best man that knows how to harness that.... Look at his record on giving youths the opportunity.... No club in the in over 20yrs of PL has given more youth player chances in the first team than Manchester United. So don't give me the bs that Fergie is not giving them chances.

No player is awarded a match based just on their legacy and fans of United should by now know that and how Fergie operates.... The reason Giggs started was because of the reason I gave above for both Cleverley and Anderson which completely justifies him starting. Also, he has a good record against Norwich.

Here again you mention our midfield but don't bother pointing out Young or Valencia who both were quite abysmal.... Our forwards' positional sense was just atrocious but no mention of that either. Our FBs failing to track back in time but no mention again. Lets go for the stereotype here and attack the midfielders who were actually better than most other positions on the pitch.

Yes people in here have behaved like we got relegated so much so that calling for Fergie to retire and cursing him which is mind boggling hence the analogy.

As I already pointed out above all the accounts that people fail to mention which is what I was referring to of people lacking proper understanding.

Now about Querioz, he was no tactical genius. The only thing he was really good at was organizing our defence by understanding the opposition's attack. So the better football you're talking about was not the result of Querioz, it was just that every single one of our player at the time was at the peak of their power and in addition to couple more Worldclass players.

Ok first and foremost one of the biggest reasons why Scholes was asked to come out of retirement was because we had lost 3 midfielders for the entire season. Fletcher, Clverley and Anderson. Carrick was our only proper CM. Ok that was the reason why Scholes came back. Now look at what he did when he played.... We won 8 consecutive games in the pl and got back in the title race. Scholes' comeback was widely attributed to that success. So that was again a genius move by Fergie.

So you cannot say that Scholes' comeback made Pogba leave.... That is complete horsehit. Pogba wanted 20k/w and we don't offer that sort of money to unproven acadamey players.... If we do it would effect our wage structure.... Something we don't approve of. From recent cases take the examples of Cleverley, Evans, and Welbeck and their progress....

Creating a new thread was a suggestion so that the discussion would get a proper direction and people would get the entirety of the situation and not bit and pieces from here and there.... So no it wasn't for your annoyance.

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