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Loyalty In Football Is Dead - And Why Should We Care?
Vaishnav (Liverpool) 2 years ago
Just been through an article and according to Zlatan Ibrahimovic.... 'Football players should be admired for ambition and not castigated for disloyalty'. How far do you guys agree with him? This guy has been very successful in the past years, he has been changing teams at will but he won a lot of cups also. So is he right about loyalty?
Ant (Liverpool) 2 years ago
Its certainly an interesting point. In almost any other career, if you had the opportunity to work with the best people and also earn twice your wage, you would jump at the opportunity. However, when it happens in football, people get quite angry about it.

The difference as I see it is that footballers are often nurtured in one club with the intention of playing for them eventually, or being sold for a sizeable profit. When this doesn't work out like that, questions get asked.

Look at Paul Pogba, a Le Havre player who was lured away at age 15 or 16 to Manchester United. "On 1 August, Le Havre released an official statement on its website criticising Manchester United and the Pogba family. Le Havre also announced its intent to ask FIFA to probe the situation. In response to Le Havre's accusations, Manchester United threatened to sue the club, while Pogba denied he was leaving Le Havre for monetary reasons, which Le Havre president Jean-Pierre Louvel had alleged to be £87,000 and a house."

Now, if I was a teenager and had the chance to play for a world class club, and get heaps of money and a fancy house for my family, I would have jumped at it.

Another example is a little closer to home for me. A couple of years ago, the club I work for in the A-League (Wellington Phoenix) had a competition where the fans would award a trial to a promising football talent and pay for his scholarship. That player was a 16 year old Marco Rojas, one of the most talented youth players to be seen in the A league. He rose to fame playing for Wellington, and even won player of the year last year for the team.




Not long after the awards ceremony, after some secretive dealings, it was announced that he was leaving the club to play for Melbourne.

Should the Phoenix fans 'admire him for his ambition?'. I don't believe so. In a very real sense, they gave him his chance and he threw it back in their faces as soon as he could.

In summary, a players senior level career is relatively short. 15-20 years at best really. So they should do the most they can during that time. Loyalty is a rare and wonderful thing these days, but in many ways I can't blame players from trying to maximise their time
ManUK (Manchester United) 2 years ago
I agree with Ant in the sense that, while there is something to be said about loyalty, a lot of these players can't turn down such great opportunities. If I was offered tons of money, a house, and a chance of playing for Manchester United to leave a smaller club how could I say no?

At the same time though, what really bothers me is how some of the players (or players agents) deal with the interest. The club your at should be able to negotiate with the bigger club and sell you when they think best, and for a price they see reasonable. The players and agents shouldn't get involved and have a fit just because Manchester United or Barcelona came calling.

My point is, you should at least have respect for the club your at, because they got your career started. Don't be striking or forcing the club into selling you for an unfair price just because you want to go, that shows zero respect. And I've seen that from some players
Donnchadh (Liverpool) 2 years ago
Ya I think both of you have hit the nail on the head here don't need to say much. I love loyalty in players, Stevie G is one of my idols and he has played for the same club since he was a kid. You look at guys like Del Piero and Carragold, Xavi they are legends not only for their skill but for their integrity and loyalty. They put the club before themselves at times in their careers and people admire that.

All this being said, some people want to challenge themselves want a change of scenery or whatever and that's fine. Ambition is a good thing and that shouldn't be frowned upon. Some kids whose football is there way to a better life, not only for themselves but for their family, that paycheck from a massive club is hard to turn down.

This being said, if at the end of their career if you compare the careers of Alessandro Del Piero and Zlatan Ibrahimovic, I think most people will have better things to say about Del Piero. Especially in Turin, but that's football and that's life. Ibra is still winning fans in Italy even if he is playing for the eternal rivals of the club he played for in the prime of his career. And to be quite honest I really don't think Ibra would give a rat's ass about his reputation so there you go.

P. S. I was going to include Giggs in the same caliber as the other players who have stayed with one club, but I couldn't include his name in the same sentence with loyalty haha low blow I know
Vaishnav (Liverpool) 2 years ago
Giggs club loyalty is much appreciated than his relationship one hahaha.... Guys like scholes, gerrard, carragher, terry, lampard and maldini, they all have been with the club throughout all ups and downs.... Not all of them have been lucky to be in a winning team. Gerrard still need an epl medal. At barcelona I don't think it is about loyalty, I believe it is more about ambitions, why would anyone move out of the best team in the world? Had barcelona not been that successful would those guys still be in that team.... Well except for puyol! I think in the EPL it is more difficult to stay loyal because of the competition, it is not a 2 horse race like in some league. The competitiveness in the EPL make it difficult to stay at one club for a long period because taste of success can take really long...
Donnchadh (Liverpool) 2 years ago
Well I don't know if Barca was the best club in the world when Xavi and Iniesta were first coming into the first team. I agree with you though, that Barca's the best so why leave?

As for Lampard, don't know if you can include him since he moved from West Ham a London rival of the Chelsk
Matt (Footytube Staff) 2 years ago
Supporting a team in the second/third tier means that player loyalty is non existent.

I do not for 1 second blame the players since dropping out of the Premier League we have lost major stars Gareth Bale, Theo Walcott, Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain and now there is massive interest in Luke Shaw who we scouted at 8 years old and is now 16. It is possible he could be sold before he has even played a full 90 minutes for the club that has trained him for 8 years. This is not even the total sum of players we have lost to 'bigger' clubs simply the most recognisable and products of the youth academy.

The lure of the Premier League and the wages they can offer is simply irresistible even if you are going from being a first team regular to bench warming. You also cannot blame the big clubs they are just doing what they need to do to try and secure the best players even if that means some talents go under developed or lost altogether.

Club legend Le Tissier was probably the last truly loyal player (I don't count players who stay at a top 4 club when you are the top there is no/less reason to move) and it cost him an England career. In a time where the rewards for playing the game are so massively skewed towards a handful of clubs the transfer windows will always be a time of fear as you pray not so much to sign a player as keep hold of the ones you have
Alexinho (AC Milan) 2 years ago
What about Buffon for Juventus? They got relegated, and he had plenty of offers, but refused them all and stayed in the club. Wouldn't you call him loyal?
Donnchadh (Liverpool) 2 years ago
As well as Del Piero I was going to mention Le God in mine Matt, good shout Le Tissier is such a legend. Every only missed one penalty.... So ridiculous haha
Ant (Liverpool) 2 years ago
Regarding Juventus, they were relegated not because they had gotten worse, but because they were involved in a hugely serious match fixing scandal along with other Serie A clubs. They knew that they would go straight back into Serie A very soon
Alexinho (AC Milan) 2 years ago
Still, they have yet to get into regular champions league playing after the incident. And mind you many of their star players left straight away.... I will list some of them when I come back in an hour or so. But really. It was a risk as they were to start with -30 in serie be in the beginning (meaning it would most likely take them 2 years to get promoted to serie a, then another 1-2 seasons to get into the champions league) Not until this year they haven't really been their old self. And even this year they are not as good as they used to, despite going towards an invincible season in serie a. They got pirlo, but they don't got an whole squad with stars as they used to
Donnchadh (Liverpool) 2 years ago
Ibrahimovic comes to mind as someone who left
Alexinho (AC Milan) 2 years ago
Many of their stars decided to leave for better clubs indeed. We could as well list Zambrotta, Mutu, Vieira, Thuram, Cannavaro, Emerson.

This would just be a part of the list. The point is that Juve also consisted of players who definitely had players who choose to stay as well.

Buffon, Trezeguet, Del Piero, Chiellini are some of those who comes to mind right now
HangTime (Chelsea) 2 years ago
Every player have their reason for leaving a team and ect. (not counting money)

Anelka- No idea why he will jump from team to team every 2yrs or so.
Drogba- He left Marseille for a bigger club in a bigger league that will be able to compete for trophies and Champions League. He will soon leave Chelsea to get more playing time rather than sit on the bench.
Kalou- will leave to get more first team.
Cahill- only came in to Chelsea b/c Chelsea is a bigger club than Bolton. Also, if he start over Luiz and play along side Terry, his chance of going to Euro 12 will increase.
Lampard- He left West Ham for a bigger and better club. Why will he leave Chelsea for any other club when he starts every game and is scoring. Now that his playing time is limited, he is probably looking to move for more first team action.
Terry- Came through the Chelsea youth system and is still at the club. Loyalty.

Ibra- He left Inter to go to Barcelona. Who wouldn't want to go there? Barcelona doesn't want him anymore. AC Milan wants him so he might as well take that chance instead of sitting on the bench at Barcelona
HangTime (Chelsea) 2 years ago
Very few players will stay at their favorite club over success and trophies. Totti, Buffon, I guess I can include Gerrard.
Torres moved b/c he wants more success and trophies. Well, Torres did said that Liverpool broke a promise to him that's why he left but IDK
Ant (Liverpool) 2 years ago
"Torres moved b/c he wants more success and trophies. "    How's that working out for him
HangTime (Chelsea) 2 years ago
Looks like Torres has won more trophy and has more success than he did at Liverpool. Just not very successful individually. Chelsea being slightly more successful than Liverpool counting since Torres joined.
Though I will admit that Liverpool is the team to beat in the FA Cup
ManUK (Manchester United) 2 years ago
Terry, it's easy to be loyal to a club your whole life when they're winning things from the time you break through
LumpOfCelery (Chelsea) 2 years ago
You could say that for every Top 4 club
ManUK (Manchester United) 2 years ago
I know Ayyam, that's why there's hardly anybody who's good enough to win things with a bigger club but sticks with a smaller club (who doesn't win things) for their whole careers
KingHarryKewell (Liverpool) 2 years ago
Loyalty towards your club is seen as a rare thing these days, and when you think of loyal players, you think of those that have the perseverance and guts to stay at one club for the rest of their playing career, through the golden times and the really hard times. These are players that get offered big bucks, big career move, more chance of trophies and medals decorating their cabinet, and yet they decide not to go forward with that. Steven Gerrard is a classic example for my club (and maybe for others out there, you can name a player too!) and look at how the fans react to him. The very name of Gerrard brings cheers to those fans of Liverpool, because of his loyalty, and the fact that his heart is a Liverpool one. Respect in that regard is hard to come by these days, Gerrard is loved by his fans at Liverpool and respected so much by his rivals as well, because the fans and rivals know that Gerrard could've gone to the likes of Barcelona or Real Madrid to really go forward in his career, yet he decided to stay at Liverpool. Now think of those who have left their clubs for more prestigious clubs or worse, for a rival club. Fernando Torres is a prime example of that. Now think of how the reaction came from that. Torres had pledged his future to Liverpool and went back on his word, even going as far as insulting Liverpool when he said that he was glad to be part of "a big club". The reaction from fans was instant, torching Torres jerseys and booing him loudly on his debut for Chelsea (and cheering when Agger elbowed him in the face) because they felt that Torres betrayed Liverpool, and just went on to find glory the easy way instead of the hard way (although the way Chelsea's going at the moment, not to mention Torres too, that's probably not going to happen soon. Ironic that Torres went to find glory when instead he'll have to work just as hard for it as he did at Liverpool).

On the other side of the scales, there are times when a bigger paycheque and the chance to play at a prestigious club is really necessary instead of staying at the current one. This is more the case for young players who are in, say, a Championship or a League 1 club, are 18-20 years old and would relish the chance to be nurtured at a much bigger club. Often at Championship/League 1 clubs, there's no academy to really go through, you're put through a regular first name basis. Admittedly for them, moving to a bigger club could mean fewer chances unless injury hits the team, or for Carling/FA Cup matches, but the experience for them, especially with more talented players in a squad, is priceless in itself. Also, there could be no chance for a certain player in a current team to aspire and achieve the dreams of playing in the EPL or champions league if they're in a League 1 team that has minimal chance of promotion in the near future. Thus for development reasons and to learn from some of the best players in the world, you may have to switch clubs to do so. Also, no player is bigger than the club itself (a fact that's been reminded with CR7 when he switched to Real Madrid, Torres to Chelsea, Nasri to Man City etc). However, as we've seen with the likes of Torres and Nasri, sometimes switching clubs is not the answer, in fact it could be more disastrous.

So I can see both sides of the argument, but honestly, I think when all is said and done and a player's career is over, loyalty towards the club is a special thing that can be one of the biggest attributes to remember for a player, and the most respected. I think that's why we really do need to care - loyalty to a club is a rarity in itself, and greed and need for trophies often surpass the need to stay at a club for the entirety of your professional career
Alexinho (AC Milan) 2 years ago
"Often at Championship/League 1 clubs, there's no academy to really go through"

Sorry that I am just commenting on such a small part of your comment here which I believe you didn't put too much into but I thought it was worth taking a note to anyway.

I might not be an expert on this field as I don't follow all the League 1 and Championship teams here so please inform me if I am been wrong on this subject but are you really saying that most of the teams don't even have an academy in these 2 leagues? I for one would find that quite strange, I could probably understand better if you were to say "a good enough academy in order to produce world class talents" which many of these boys really wish to develop into in order to make a name for them selves as turn the boyhood dream into their living. - Playing football on high level.

Oh, and even then I would perhaps disagree with you as I am in the opinion that several of the teams in these leagues seems to be more focused on develop/produce their own talents which they can introduce to the game and later on either benefit from in order of good performance for the team or by the transfer fees on those who are that good that the top division teams are willing to pay out for their service.

Personally I've only been to the Ipswich academy which I was quite impressed with but I have also witnessed the Southampton academy over movies and by their play of course.

To me it has been looking like it is rather quite some numbers of the teams in the top division who is lacking proper academies to develop new local talents into fine first squad team as many of the teams seems to prefer to rather find the talents of other teams and bring in those who cost them less.

Oh don't take me wrong, my meaning with this is not to criticize either way of approaching the game, however I have to admit that I admire those who can develop their own players for the achievement in doing so.

I just wanted to educate myself a little and find out if it really is the case that teams of lower division do not have academies, and if so, how do they get new footballers to their team? Are they selling and buying nonstop with that massive success that they will always be able to bring in new players?
Sam6194 (Liverpool) 2 years ago
Here is what bellamy said in his last interview....

"I've enjoyed my career. Is my career defined by trophies? No, not at all, and it never will be. I just set out and try and win every game I can, and if I win trophies, great.

Is he hungry for titles? , is he hungry for champions league football.

Unless and until you are happy with the club your playing for you should never leave the club and being hungry for titles changing the clubs won't help in anyway look at torres went to chelsea and liverpool are on the verge of winning title this weekend and might be more to come with new owners and all investment that he has done for liverpool.... (m not guaranteeing it, but if we won torres would definitely count himself unlucky atleast for 1 sec.)

Gerrard, carragher and totti and giggs and all, they are not players they are GEMS and they don't come that often....

There are always few setbacks in career but that doesn't mean you have been failure in your career and wise man can understand that where as others can't.... I mean even if torres would have ended his career scoring 20 goals a season and not winning a single title, he still would be considered legend(at least I would)....

Another thing what adam did for blackpool was appreciable but he left blackpool for liverpool even though blackpool made his career.
If adam would have stayed at blackpool then that would have been suicide and not loyalty....

There is huge difference between what adam did and torres did....
Sam6194 (Liverpool) 2 years ago
Double post
Awolnation (Napoli) 2 years ago
Zlatan has the biggest ego I have ever seen. The dude probably occupies two parking spaces when he parks his car. One for that overly big ego and one for his actual car. Men are just not good when it comes to loyalty. Hence, why we cheat. Football is like marriage. We want to have a couple mistresses here and there
Ltm017 2 years ago
You have no loyalty some men do. You cheat and probably keep multiple mistresses. You almost sound like Ibra.... The pot calling the kettle black maybe?

Anyway Ibra is the last person I would listen to. He has an opinion on everything and if we left it up to him and what he thought football would be destroyed. Where have you seen loyalty as not an issue in sports? Even when you're a kid it matters. It also depends on how you go about it as well
Donnchadh (Liverpool) 2 years ago
Well said Ltm generalizations: always classy
Awolnation (Napoli) 2 years ago
PS. I think your big tits baited everyone to partake in this discussion. Or maybe just me
Ant (Liverpool) 2 years ago
Wtf
Matt (Footytube Staff) 2 years ago
I think Awol is referring to the rather comely female in the original posters avatar
Vaishnav (Liverpool) 2 years ago
No maybe because the discussion about loyalty VS ambitions is really very interesting nowadays. Clubs like arsenal, so called the big 4, mostly every year in champions league but hardly has a good loyalty rate!
Awolnation (Napoli) 2 years ago
"The pot calling the kettle back"? Please stop using cliches that are way past their life cycles. Money > Loyalty.... Thanks to the dynamics of technology and its direct impact on everyone's culture. You should read some books and then provide your unfounded insights
Vaishnav (Liverpool) 2 years ago
Anyone remember what happen to Michael Owen.... He won so much with LFC and then decided to move to real madrid to win things but instead we won the champions league.... His ambitions ruin his career.... Had he stayed at liverpool at that time, he would have been our legend! Ambitions not always bring a plus in your career, can be a step backward at times



   
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