Forums / Argentina
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Venezuela V Argentina, Oct 12
Kingleo (Barcelona) 5 years ago
Sabella, why bring on Pastore with only 5 f*****n minutes left in the game, when it was clear, before halftime, that we needed him to help in the midfield?
His name is Javier Pastore not Jesus Christ.
What miracle did you expect him to perform in 5 minutes?

Same s**t different toilet. I hope you can learn from your mistakes unlike the 2 lunatics before you.

Also Rojo is garbage.

Good performance Venezuela, you deserved it
Riajz (Manchester United) 5 years ago
Do they really need to show the final score like that?
Zhudayong (Barcelona) 5 years ago
Hahaha.... It's their 1st ever victory over Argentina! And which, I must say, was well deserved.
Aatir (Chelsea) 5 years ago
Haha, that was something!
Orvid (Bayern München) 5 years ago
Venezuela 1-0 Argentina. Watching Argentina play was very painful. They couldn't even complete 4-5 passes in a row. Messi was a lost soul and Higuain was nowhere to be found. Others were even worse. Such a disorganized defence, creativity less midifeld and toothless attack. Argentina have so many problems. I am disappointed
Zhudayong (Barcelona) 5 years ago
It's strange how Argentina looks a lot like RM. A team with so many superstars with no real chemistry. Now some would probably dismiss the idea that RM has no real chemistry but the fact is if you put a bunch of world class players in the same team, eventually along the way u'd see moments of brilliance (but I'd hardly call that chemistry).

Argentina (in a bright day), just like RM, has the ability to be deadly in counters and whenever they meet a shaky defence, they'll most definitely rip them apart. But that's just it because when they meet those well organized defence lines, they tend to struggle. Worse, both have the same flaws with a very shaky and unstable defence because whenever they face an opponent that's not afraid to attack whenever the chance is given, they always end up conceding and probably end up losing too if the opponent is well organized at the back.

Whereas, when you look at a team like Germany, NOW that's a team with Chemistry. Even Spain has a lot of chemistry (although with Spain it's probably because of the amount of Barca DNA in the national team)
Aatir (Chelsea) 5 years ago
Spain and Germany both have a good share of star players.
Its not the star players which is the issue. Argentina has an on off relationship while playing as a team.

Argentina has consistently been the most under performing team of past 2 decades. And I don't see this ending sometime very soon
Malik (Barcelona) 5 years ago
I agree with you Zhudayong, they really look like RM, whilr playing with weak defences they will rip them apart but they struggle to plat against quality def, 2ndly argentena def is so poor I don't understad why Sabella is not deploying Mascherano in Def and why the hell he is not giving chance to pastore and for those who are cretising messi please read the expert commet on messi's in this match
"Lionel Messi
Isolated, pressured and, ultimately, defeated. A handful of speculative shots was all the inspirational forward mustered against a tide of tacklers, but he was not helped by his lacklustre colleagues"

Raynor (Sporting CP Lisbon) 5 years ago
Blackstarmalik, so taking into account the expert analysis, do you consider that Messi would have played much better if Argentina had a more cohesive midfield, like Barcelona? I'm not hating on Messi, I do feel he is a great player, but he never feels the same when playing for the national squad. I say this because Portugal sometimes plays quite well (it wasn't yesterday's case)and [C.] Ronaldo plays badly, since our midfield players are more cohesive amongst themselves. I may be wrong, but that's how I feel, even though I didn't watch Argentina's game yesterday
Aatir (Chelsea) 5 years ago
Two things are not working for the team right now.

1. A non cohesive midfield
2. An invisible defence

Argentina has far too much talent lying around. But none have been able to use it effectively
Raynor (Sporting CP Lisbon) 5 years ago
Who were yesterday's back four for Argentina?
[account-removed] 5 years ago
Guys I watched the full match yesterday, and I can tell that the problem was with purely with the midfield.... Damn at the second half, argentina could create even a one dangerous chance to score.... There were no link at all bet the midfield and the offense...
DaGaza (Real Madrid) 5 years ago
Lol dude madrid are nothing like argentina, don't even make sense.... Argentina have no chemistry because they got no midfield and their defence is not creative neither, so they rely on messi higuain di maria tevez aguero, only the attack plays but in a game where the ball can't get to the attack than the entire team can't play.... Not because a team doesn't pass the ball around 400 times before scoring a goal means they don't have chemistry or don't have team work.... Learn that barca fans
Jogafutebol (Real Madrid) 5 years ago
Yeah I don't see a strong and constant connection between the number of superstars and the level of team chemistry. Spain has its fair share of superstars, after all the core of the team are made up of mainly Barcelona and Madrid players. Germany and the Netherlands also have a good amount of superstars. Perhaps Argentina and Portugal are the 2 main teams that lack chemistry while also having a fair amount of superstars. Argentina just like Portugal has the potential to play much better. They have world class attacking players and capable mid-fielders. Their defence is good on papaer as well. It could be due to a number of reason like the management, the limited time they have spent as a team or the incompatibility of their players and philosophies
Jogafutebol (Real Madrid) 5 years ago
Zhudayong (Barcelona) 5 years ago
DaGaza, were you asleep when you read my comment!? Smh
When did anyone in this conversation claim that chemistry = 400 passes before scoring? Or you just felt the need to disagree since it was a Barca fan speaking of RM. Sigh
You could argue all you want but the fact remains the same: RM lacks chemistry and this is in spite of all the good runs RM has had. As I said, if you put a bunch of superstars on the same team, eventually sooner or later, there would be some moments of brilliance but that doesn't = chemistry.
More importantly, I never spoke of possession games because Germany doesn't play like Barca. And neither does Holland (another good example from Jogafutebol). 2 national sides who do not pass the ball around as much as Barca or Spain BUT have a great chemistry in their systems. So try and read through the whole comment before jumping into conclusion.

@Raynor, I said something on the Barca forum about people who don't watch games and rely on highlights to note the performance of a player. But if you ask me, I would advice you to at least check the stats if you don't have time to watch the game itself because the stats would probably prove you one thing: Argentina would be, more or less, nothing without Messi. Not saying he's just as tremendous with them as he is with Barca.... Lol.... Far from it. But to say he performs badly with Argentina would be ludicrous because in Argentina, Messi is not Messi; he is ''Xaviesta''
DaGaza (Real Madrid) 5 years ago
So zhudayong what do you consider as chemistry in a team?
Raynor (Sporting CP Lisbon) 5 years ago
Zhudayong, first of all i've admited in another post on this forum that I hadn't watch the match. Second, from what you wrote, team chemistry is not important, is that it? Sorry to say it, but it's not Messi that wins games, it's Barcelona or Argentina, since it's a team sport. I just watched the extended highlights on Eurosport and it seemed to me that the lack of chemistry lead to a bad performance from Messi. He is great, but he can't do everything on his own
Malik (Barcelona) 5 years ago
@Raynor. I believe ya if pastore & juan Roman was playing in midfield and mascherano in defence result would be different.  
Raynor (Sporting CP Lisbon) 5 years ago
Blackstarmalik, that's exactly it. And what really bugs me is that Argentina has huge potential, with such amazing players scattered around the World, even playing in Portugal
Zhudayong (Barcelona) 5 years ago
@Raynor, did you honestly gather that ''team chemistry is not important'' from all the things I said in this conversation!? Oh my (smh)! If it didn't matter I wouldn't feel sorry for how Argentina performs especially with a group of people that could do much better than what they've been doing this far.
More importantly, you shouldn't lie to yourself: it's impossible to fully appreciate the performance of a single player if what you watch is the highlight of the game as a whole. You think because Argentina lost, therefore Messi certainly played bad. Yeah, it's a team sport but even in a team sport there's what u'd call ''key players''. If not then why do you think people always say of Barca that without Messi-Xavi-Iniesta (or whoever other player) Barca would be finished!? Yeah, you win as a team and lose as a team! But that doesn't make each player's performance the same; reason why you have things like ''man of the match'' or ''best player'' in the team that lost.
IF you think from the highlights of a game someone can fully appreciate the performance of individual players then you don't understand why scouts need to travel to go watch live the players they are interested in. Lol

@DaGaza, to me chemistry = understanding of each other in such a way that everyone could see a certain pattern in the flow of a team's display. When I look at Germany, Holland, Ghana, Spain, etc.... I see organized teams with players that could find each other with their eyes closed. When I look RM, I see a bunch of talents that uses their individual skills to find one another (although once in a while as I said, there are few moments of magic). More than once we've seen RM struggle not because the opponent was better but because the team's lack of chemistry caught up with them (and we often see that especially when they play against a well organised defence)
DaGaza (Real Madrid) 5 years ago
Oh ok so holland germany spain ghana etc have never struggled in a match or two.... There are days where madrid like any other team plays badly and days where they play well, like I said comparing madrid to argentina don't make one sense, and I don't know how many times you watch madrid play but I don't need to be a madrid fan to realise that chemistry = "understanding" is not missing in the team.... Peace out!
Raynor (Sporting CP Lisbon) 5 years ago
Zhudayong, when you say that Messi while playing for Argentina is "Xaviesta", you are stating that he has to do the job of at least two players, in other words, he doesn't need support from the back. Do you really believe on what you are saying?
Secondly, I never said Argentina lost and, as a consequence, Messi didn't play well. Even though I didn't have the chance to watch the match, from the highlights i've seen and from what i've been told, the Argentinian midfield didn't perform well, unable to help Messi and leaving him stranded up front.... Even if he had some good moments, it simply was a one man mission and in football that rarely works. Without a proper linkage between defence and attack, that is to say, a properly functioning midfield, Messi couldn't do what he knows best.
Zhudayong (Barcelona) 5 years ago
@DaGaza, am not sure how honest you can be with urself but from where I stand, there's no way RM would've been dominated by Barca this much if they had a real chemistry other than the few moments of brilliance we've all seen a couple of times. To me it comes as a fact that RM squad (for the last couple of years) with a real chemistry would've been number 1. Lol

@Raynor, you actually thought ''Xaviesta'' meant 2 roles for Messi? This is exactly the proof that you can't watch highlights and comment properly on individual performances. What was the last Argentinian game you saw!? Against Chile, Messi started most of his runs deeper than against Venezuela. Di Maria was the one in this game to start all the runs from the midfield and failed completely as he had a hard time finding both Messi and Higuain as Messi does when he's the one making the runs from behind. And that's exactly what Xavi-Iniesta do for Barca: starting runs from behind after Busquets and always finding Messi in the correct spot of the pitch for him to finish or assist. Against Venezuela the coach decided to give that role to Di Maria and had Messi room in the 3/4 of the pitch with Higuain.
You didn't watch the game, and therefore couldn't see all the runs, tactics and build ups Argentina used in that game, yet, here you are arguing on individual performances. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.
Raynor (Sporting CP Lisbon) 5 years ago
Zhudayong, you're right we are going to continue to disagree, and for that reason (since it's pointless) this will be my final post about the subject (with my initial statement): no cohesive midfield, less chances for Messi to shine.
Still, I have to say it's refreshing to have a discussion with a Barça fan that doesn't involve who is best, [C.] Ronaldo or Messi. I would feel tempted in the past to enter in such debate, but now I couldn't care less. Cheers!
Beautifulmind (Barcelona) 5 years ago
I hate long comments
Raynor (Sporting CP Lisbon) 5 years ago
WTF?!? I don't know what really happened, but I'm stunned to say the least
LusoAmerican (FC Porto) 5 years ago
Why did venezuela have fireworks at the end of the match. They just won one game doesn't mean they are going to the WC
GunzBlazing (Arsenal) 5 years ago
But it damn well will help their confidence
TopoElpibe (Barcelona) 5 years ago
It was the first time Venezuela beat Argentina in a qualifying match its history for them I thinks a big reason why they using fireworks and gives them a big moral boost
RealMadrid4life (Real Madrid) 5 years ago
Its simply called, the passion of football mate
Palandiell (Bayern München) 5 years ago
Darin (Fulham) 5 years ago
Viva El Vino Tinto !
Shovwar (Barcelona) 5 years ago
Not worried about the result, not even worried about Argentina qualifying (they eventually will)! Its a long way and no team would win all their matches. I m worried about the players attitude and Sabella's tactics. Players looks like they don't care and where is the speed? Argentina would make it to the WC but what they are gonna' do after that if they play like this? Crush out of the QF again?
Mjay83 (Barcelona) 5 years ago
Venezuela have a really good team, they impressed in the copa america and did the same in this game. I expected them to give Argentina a hard time but not to win. Well done venezuela!
Ali20 (Barcelona) 5 years ago
Argentina needs a simple thing.... A midfield of javier pastore and juan roman riquelme.... Then you put maxherano in defence and where the hell is gago? ....

Midfield to attack is poor higuain messi and di maria are suffering.... Forget the 4-1 if you look at the goals those 3 did the job!!.... It was all their brilliance noo help from midfield.... You have gago pastore and riquelme especially rriquelme use them up you stupid coach.... Smh
RealMadrid4life (Real Madrid) 5 years ago
If you think fire works after a win were impressive, watch this.

Dreamfooty14 (NE Revolution) 5 years ago
El portero venezolano no quiere mantener la pelota...
Carioca1 (Barcelona) 5 years ago
I would have loved watching this match with the tano Pasman!
Lovelyeli (CD Chivas de Guadalajara) 5 years ago
Congrats Vino Tinto!.

Always amazing seeing a national team make history for themselves. The energy looks amazing I bet there was a lot of wine celebrations after this game haha

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